Nicely done! That's the setup I keep coming back to on the Apollo 7500. I have been really spoiled with not having overspray, I could not imagine going back to a compressor conversion gun and wasting all the time to cover the entire shop with plastic. Just for grins I got out the ol' Binks 7 not that long ago, wow what a mess that made. I have one of my sicmo guns setup to shoot alkyd enamel for undercar parts, I honestly think I get less overspray with that than with a spray bomb.
This has been a great read on this thread . i have been researching many options on setting up my own hvlp painting system in my garage but i have been getting very mixed reviews. I was wondering with a few members quest to make even their own diy turbine sprayer if they have thought of using a leaf blower with an adapter to fit the sprayer hose . or do some surgery and extract the motor. Here is a dirt cheap one i found on home depot. http://m.homedepot.com/p/Toro-230-m...-Leaf-Blower-Vacuum-Shredder-51602/203222685/
Not enough pressure can be developed with a single stage. A 3-stage 5.7" vacuum motor is good for just about everything you would need to shoot, and can be had for about $100. It might be worth asking around at a local central vac shop as they sometimes have takeouts or used units that just need brushes or bearings and can be had for little to nothing.
Won't work, it will not give you what you need. Take a look into the Ametek (Lamb) 3 stage vacuum turbine I installed in my unit earlier in this thread. Even brand new they are relatively cheap.
Hey, Daddy-O's-Diner. Is that Sprayfine turbine unit a non-bleed system or did you convert it over to use the Apollo 7500 gun? I have a Sprayfine A-301 and was looking at getting the 7500GT gun but I saw it was a non-bleed gun. Thanks!! Troy.
I figured they measured the cfm different . 300cfm lol... do you think that cheap system like the harbor freight unit with the upgraded 1500watt 3 stage motor you are suggesting would make it spray better? Would that bigger motor even fit in the case is a better question i guess. Thank you for the responses. I am torn between the fuji semi pro and the sprayfine 301
Unless I am mistaken, when you use a non bleeder style gun on the turbine systems it can be harder on the turbine as when you are not spraying it will be backing up the air flow and the turbine will build up heat in the system. I'm pretty sure most of the turbine style systems use bleeder style guns for that reason. Edit: here is the explanation on the guns from Apollo's website. Note what they say about the requirements of the turbine to have the air pressure relief when using the non-bleeder style gun. Bleeder spray guns have a continuous flow of air through the air cap when the HVLP turbine is “on”. Bleeder spray guns are the original style HVLP spray gun supplied with Apollo turbine spray systems. They are simple in design, extremely reliable and very easy to clean and maintain. The perception that the continuous air flow will displace dust and dirt in the spray area and work-shop, or in any way affect the performance when spraying is incorrect. It originated when HVLP manufacturers began offering non-bleeder style HVLP spray guns and circulated inaccurate information to promote the alternative non-bleeder concept. HVLP manufacturers continue to successfully offer bleeder style spray guns. Apollo 5000 Series bleeder style spray guns have a proven history and proven performance and have even been copied by other HVLP producers. Non-Bleeder HVLP spray guns do not bleed air when the HVLP turbine is “on” until the trigger on the spray gun is pulled back. Non-bleeder spray guns are slightly more complex than bleeder style HVLP spray guns. Non-bleeder HVLP spray guns require a turbine system to have some form of air relief to prevent backflow air pressure to the motor. This air relief can be internal or external. There is no advantage or disadvantage to using a non-bleeder HVLP spray gun. It is a matter of preference and/or choice. In looking at the Sprayfine turbine specs they do not have the air relief system and should be used with bleeder style guns. Not to say that the non bleeder gun won't work however....there will be some impact on the performance or even the life of the turbine itself.
I have a small update on a cheap . very cheap rockler, aka harbor freight turbine sprayer. 109$ I bought it to shoot my fence with Thompson water seal. I know this is not auto related but I have seen folks say they have shot a few cars with them with varying results. the thing is built like a toy and performs like one. no shock there .. when i first loaded the gun for a test spray the water seal came out clumpy like mashed potatoes with gravy consistency. I shook it up for minutes until I gave out. lol I sprayed with the 320z cup with an unknown tip on the gun It does not say which size it has upon shipment. the product came out but sputters. likely too thick and wrong tip. so against the product recommendations I added 8 ounces of water to the product that was left in the gallon jug and changed the tip on the spray gun. This made the product actually have a better chance . it came out in a good 8" fan and I continued to spray the fence. I was only able to spray with the one gallon 5 sections of the fence , only on one side. . I have 28 more to go. I decided to try something I own a 3hp shop vac and it doubles as a blower if you attach the hose to the opposite side . Low and behold the hose from the spray gun fits snugly into the shop vac hose almost like it was meant for it.. I did a test spray with the last of the product in the gun and it felt like I had double the air output when the gun is at idle. It also showed up when I sprayed the last of it. I was able to do with one pass what I was not able to do with 2 passes from the turbine on the rockler sprayer. Remember this is just a test from items I already own. I tried the leaf blower too but the opening on the hose for the gun will not fit well and Id have to make an adapter. I did stuff it in the leaf blower and with it leaking air on both sides it was already meeting or exceeding the output of the 3hp shop vac as well. this plastic gun is a toy at best. it should only be spraying as a training tool or wood applications I think . I have doubled the air output but at what cost? or what benefit? the gun now is overpowered as is the small hose. I would not trust trying to spray any auto paint from it. this is a gun for me to train with. Ill add pictures as well. I sure wish I knew a way to test the actual outputs from the gun with all three devices I have tried . I guess i could line up something and see how far away it will move it at a set distance to be fair . I am including a couple pics of the system and the hose fitment into my shop vac. sorry for the mess everything I had stacked decided to fall over due to me pulling on the extension cord. specs on the shop vac Air Flow: 140 (CFM) Sealed Pressure: 57 (inches) Electrical Ratings: 120V 60Hz 8.2Amps
Junk is the best way to describe what you are working with. You would have been way further ahead in spraying your fence if you bought something better suited to the job such as a Wagner electric sprayer.
Rockler Sprayer is maybe a 2-stage? Rated at 4psi. 3 - stage turbine is minimum requirement to atomize automotive paints.
yeah i bought this to train with and spray the fence with it . the rockler hvlp sprayer is recommended for spraying woodworking and other small projects . I dont believe it has enough power to spray anything unless its thinned down 50% .. its good to test with . When i get my shed \ garage built I am thinking of buying the fuji or the spray fine 3 stage that I can use to spray plasti dip and or automotive paint with. ..
What kind of air relief set-up could I use with my Sprayfine 2-stage system, if I wanted to use one of my conventional HVLP guns?
As far as I know, a non turbine HVLP gun can not be used with a turbine system. I asked the question earlier in the thread on the difference in the guns and got the answer: Blue One said: ↑ Just a question, I see a lot of different HVLP guns for sale. Is there a difference between an HVLP gun that you can use with an air compressor and a regulator and an HVLP gun that you can use with a turbine ? K13 said: Yes you will notice on turbine based guns there is a air line between the gun and the paint cup that is used to pressurize the cup this is not used in conventional HVLP guns. That difference tells me that a conventional HVLP gun won't work with a turbine.
Blue One was right when he said the Spray Fine unit did not have a by-pass and was designed to be used with a bleeder type gun. The simple solution is to drill a small bleed hole in the quick connect hose fitting where it attached to the turbine. This will bleed off air when your not shooting, but won't effect the airflow enough to bother anything when the trigger is pulled. I've been really happy with my unit and look forward to using it even more on my next project.
I have stumbled upon some hvlp tanning equipment . not sure if the guns could spray auto paint but they do look the part. the reason I am looking for smaller more portable options for spraying automotive paint or clear is I restore headlights I would love to be able to mix up my own clear and spray it and do a better job than the rattle can clears. I am using upol clear number 1 for now, with great success but I would love to spray some 2k clear but spending 20$ a can for spray max 2k clear and have it be a 1 use product is not very cost effective. I have also tried to thin the 2k clears and spray them with a preval sprayer but they too after all is said and done is just a fancy rattle can . here is the first one. more of a large air brush set up. http://www.paascheairbrush.com/products/airbrush-tanning-tattoos/tanning/tanning-equipment/DT-800F-1 and here is the second one I know the gun looks cheap but they do offer up a better gun for a complete cost of 289$ for the complete set up. the specs if not over inflated look better than the campbell hausfeld hv 2500 which we know can spray car paint along with the showtime 90. Components & Specifications: http://www.belloccio.com/Tanning/T200-12-System/TAN-KIT-T200-12.html Powerful 2 Stage Turbine Air Pump Motor Unit with Dual Sided Foam Intake Filters Power: 1.25 Horse Power 2 Stage Turbine that puts out a High Volume of Air (115 CFM's at 6 PSI); Electric Cord: 8 ft; Electric Certificate: CE Voltage: Standard USA version only with 110-120 Volts, 60 Hertz Portable: Includes handle, so you can easily carry it anywhere. Dimensions: 13.5" L x 10.5" W x 11" H; Weight: 16 LBS (7.0 KG) 10 Foot Slim, Flexible and Durable Air Hose with Quick Connect Couplers New High-Tech Professional Lightweight Plastic Composite Body HVLP Spray Application Gun with Quick Connect Fitting (Model G12-QC) Detailed user guide manual: covers assembly & set-up, solution tips and the application process
Neither of those will be any good for painting. This is one of the cases where you need to ante up for the proper equipment or just forget it. Trying to cheap your way through or use something designed for something like spray tanning is just not going to work.
well I am in the beginning stages of building the sprayer VAL6565 Lamb Ametek 116565-13 - 5.7" Dia, 3 Stage, 120V 1 $84.99 $84.99 I have taken the what looks to be 2 stage motor out of my rockler sprayer and the dimensions are almost identical to the new motor . man there is not much stuff at all inside these units. I am also going to buy the spray gun from spray fine and their hose. Im sure I can find the fittings I need for the hose at home depot. I always like taking stuff apart and putting it back together anyway so this is actually fun to do.. I will then use this to finish my fence , spray the roof of my car if I choose too , and not have to worry about over reducing the paint to get it to spray.
hopefully mine will turn out as good or close to as yours. whats is your thoughts on hooking them up this way? like this old post from a woodworking website? (post #107758, reply #8 of 16) by DJK in reply to Anonymous [original] on Thu, 12/23/2004 - 05:37 Here are the instructions: - Motors are both Ametek 5.7” dia., by-pass tangential discharge - three stage #116765-00 - two stage #119-412-13 - both are rated 500 hour average life - Ametek also makes 7.2” dia. motors with a 700 hour average life. Make sure the motors are “by-pass” design NOT “flow thru”. By-pass have a fan on the commutator end to help cool the motor. - The 1/2” MDF box is 17” x 9” x 12 1/2” for the motors listed. If different motors are used resize the box. - Air filter is a Fram #CA3915. The two round filters are non woven nylon scuff pads cut to fit over the cooling fans. - Two 15 amp on/off switches - Use a 12 ga. power cord. - The box just holds the motors and filters. It’s a cut and fit to build operation. The output of the two stage is connected to the input of the three stage. The three is bolted to the center divider over a 2” hole and the two is bolted to the back panel. The outlet of the two is press fit into the divider hole. The two stage holes for the cooling fans, with the nylon pads, are rabbeted to hold the filters. You can use any method or type of filters, they are for course material, not like the Fram type. The main Fram filter is over a 2” hole. Build a frame for it and screw it to the box. - Hose connector. Use a metal funnel cut to fit over the outlet of the three stage and use silicone to seal it. The other end is cut to accept a hose connector. I use a 3/4” PVC threaded male hose pipe epoxied to the funnel. - Wire a switch to each motor and connect them in parallel to the power cord. DON’T wire the motors in series, they will run half speed. - I purchase motors from Nationwide Sales and Service 800-555-4493, www.shopnss.com. If you have a Granger catalog , they list specs. on the motors but their prices are high. Go to the Ametek web site and check specs. and dealers. Get a three stage with high “lift” spec. Those will produce the highest psi. - I use a bleeder type gun. If a non-bleed gun is used, a relief valve can be installed at the hose to box connection. It will open when the trigger is not pressed and close when in use. - Hope this helps. Contact me with questions. Dave Koury back.jpg 20.64 KB
ok here is the beginning stages of the build . went to lowes looking for the hose fitting adapters . was told to never use brass fittings for anything. we shall see this steel one looks and feels ghetto...lol and here it is siliconed into position
I am scared to silicone around the steel hose fitting until I know for a fact its the one I will be using.
If you want some idea on the proper pathways to have air flowing through your turbine for both the intake air for spraying and also the exhaust air for cooling of the turbine motor, take a look back at the pictures of my unit when I removed the 2 stage turbine and installed the 3 stage. You need to copy the separation of the airflow paths. It is very important, copy the way my unit is set up, thats the way the manufacturer did it. The previously home built unit posted here was not set up properly for those critical airflow paths. You have a nice case to enclose it all, you may as well do it right. You will notice that the intake air for the turbine is by itself and that the turbine and motor are in a seperate sort of inner box that takes in air from the top of the motor with it's fan and then because that section of the cabinet is sealled off from the rest that it vents the heat out the sides. That way heat is seperated fom the intake air for spraying. If that all makes sense. Just look at the pictures \i posted, probably easier.
I seen the pictures im using that for wiring reference. Im going to try the sprayfine design with intake and venting both filtered across from one another. Ive seen that titan also uses this design very simple and a straight shot. Ill likely pvc the vent outside the box . filter the intake . the sprayfine filters look cheep enough. Im thinking that like in cars the least amount of bends the air has to do the better. It might be loud as hell ...lol
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