Hybrid Hot Rod, sticking it to the man

lotsa euro-rodders use tiny diesels, but the sound and fury just isn't the same...

 

wouldnt it be the complete opposite of sticking it to the man??? i mean since the government is wanting to do the whole alternative fuel thing, that would kinda be teaming up with the man. oh well

 

You'd need to buy a lot of TV dinners to aquire enough corn to make the fuel in Cali.

Anyway, I've got a '73 Mercedes 220 Diesel (with four on the floor!) and I can get in the mid 30 mpg range with it on long trips. In a lighter car I'm sure it'd do better. An early Mercedes diesel would be a cool rod motor, they have aluminum covers on them that could be polished and it's still a relatively early looking motor, not all plastic'd and module'd. Could set it up for waste vegetable oil too.

I wonder, could a '73 MB be done up in a bellflower lowrider style, or would that be gay?

 

Gay.

Besides, Bellflower tips would look bad blowing that black soot.

Cosmo

 

diesel is the way to go, if i get my way that's what i'll be doing.

 

I would still like options. Don't give me wrong but I wanna go fast not just cheap and quite. What are my options??? Hybrid,Solar, Propane,Corn oil, Hydro, V6.
I like what Brazil is doing, totally self sufficent.

 

Funny you ask...

I started thinking on this over a year ago and have progressed nicely with my collection of parts. I chose propane because parts and support are widely available, it's emissions exempt in my state and fuel cost is about half that of gasoline. Power output is compareable as is mileage.
I started with a lot of research, then I got lucky and connected with an engineering type that specializes in alternative fuels. He is into old Mustangs and runs one on propane. He has also done prototype work for various manufacturers with natural gas, propane, hydrogen, etc.
I bought a new mixer (carb) and a collection of good used parts to go with it. I expect to have my fuel tank in the next few weeks and will run this setup on a small block chevy with a T-56 six speed. With 3.50 gears, I will have tons of go with very low hiway rpms. I expect power to be between 275 and 350 hp. I also will carry 24+ gallons, so 300 miles between stops will be no problem at all. 20 mpg is my goal.
This setup can be used on any conventional engine and it likes high compression.(10.5 to 1, 105 octane with HD5 motor fuel) You want to use that 3x2 manifold? No problem. They have smaller mixers that can be set up with progressive linkage. Want 8 singles? You can do that too if you can handle the plumbing.
I have a collection of links I can share later if anyone wants them.

 

yup, that's my attitude at this point. I'm riding this train to the end of the line! Blown 460 and burnouts every time out, just piss offf everybody cause you only live once!!!!! We'll never have fossil fuels again, might as well not wait out the little time that we have left with a mediocre car. I know, it's a selfish attitude, but everybody else had their chance long ago to buy economy cars and they didn't- I have an excuse to guzzle gas in that my fuel wasters were all built 30 or more years ago, back when they were considered "economy"

Besides, hot rodding is done for fun, not transportation, why drive a hot rod if it doesn't even have a hot rodded fuel wasting motor? Let's face it, no hydrogen or biodiesel or propane car can ever equal the joy given by a internal combustion engine. This board is about traditional rods, and that's one factor in their being traditional. Why should I suffer in the fun department to subsidize the rise of the Chinese empire? More fuel I use, the less there is for them to suck up!

 

As long as you have a third world population to exploit and treat like slaves, plus a climate that has multiple growing seasons in a year.

 

Well, Propane has been used as a motor fuel for as long as they have been refining gasoline, and all of the above are run in an internal combustion engines. My motivations are to enjoy my passion for rodding MORE by making it cost LESS. As far as traditional? When a "traditional rodder" first dropped a V-8 between the rails of a modified T, it wasn't traditional. Traditional rodders were doing something "new and different" then. The spirit is to be innovative. I'll do that and with cash left over, and then do it some more. And maybe I'll do it with a solid axle and lake pipes.....

www.alternatefuelsracing.com

 

I should restate my point, even I was confused a little by it
It just wouldn't be the same, it may be fast but a different kind of fast. It may be hot rodding, but a different kind. When I burn up every last drop of fuel I can afford, then I'll think about alternatives, but it's obvious this train's coming to the station and I want to at least have fun while we're still on track. To me, any alternatives to a big V8 or other old-tech, non-injected gasoline engine wouldn't be worthwhile is what I've always told myself.

 

I certainly appreciate your take on it. I was lusting after an early Plymouth in traffic today. Wouldn't change a thing on it.
I also have a gearhead daughter that will be looking for her first car in a couple of years. If we don't figure out how to do yesterday's roddin on tomorrows fuel, there won't be any tradition left for her to pass down. Besides, I'm a cheap SOB, so I fall back on my first post. Do it cheaper, do it more.

 

What is wrong with $3.00 for a gallon of gas? I wouldn't want to push a car 15 miles for $3.00! I don't even think you could get a Chinaman to do it for that.
Maybe you should install a smaller gas tank...........It only costs me $20.00 to fill the tank on my "T" modified!

 

sticking it to the man? isnt most electricity still produced by burning fossil fuels?

 

Why not get a diesel engine from say a late seventies olds cutlass and set it up to run off used cooking oil from burger joints? I've seen articales about this set up and the best part is most places have to pay someone to pickup thier used oil so if you offered to pick it up for free surely they would take you up on it. All I know about this two things 1 you have to strain or filter the used oil and 2 Your exhaust will smell like whatever was cooked in the oil. Just my two cents.

 

I guess you would have to tell me what a bellflower lowrider style vehicle looks like but I CAN tell you a 72 MB 300sd can be modified and look pretty good. This guy is more in my group, NOT LOWRIDER, but from the mini-truckin crowd. We do things a bit diffrent I guess......

Here is an airbagged 72 300SD that is stripped to the bare metal and rubbed with wd40 to prevernt rust. yeah, its a lot of work but its deffinatly diffrent

 

I had a couple of requests for propane links, so here you go. Deep reading sometimes, but worthwhile. Enjoy!

http://www.hendrixsystems.com/ parts
http://fuelsforum.rasoenterprises.com/index.php forum
http://www.bazuin.com/ohgx450.php parts
http://www.woodward.com/engine/gaseng/gaseng2/streamline.cfm? parts manufacturer
http://franzh.home.texas.net/ genius
http://www.propanecarbs.com/ small cfm carbs
http://www.hybridfuelsystems.com/ tech
http://www.jasperengines.com/index.html engines & parts
http://www.lngplants.com/carbturbo.htm natural gas
http://www.propaneguy.com/ car guy with parts
http://www.topfuelers.ca/propaneconversions_.htm#Gann%20Products%20Company parts
http://cars.rasoenterprises.com/index.html forum operator and parts
http://www.sleegers.on.ca/index.htm tanks
http://www.wps.com/LPG/index.html#INDEX parts

 

Pedals

 

A long, long time ago I saw a picture in a chopper mag of a 4-wheeler made from a Harley sidecar, with a flathead 45-incher Harley on the side. It was beyond cool looking with 8-inch wide mag wheels on all 4 corners, a 1+1 seating arrangement (one behind the other). I'd bet a small car like that with Harley power would get 40 mpg without any problem, and be an absolute blast to drive!

 

That is what was once called a cycle-car. Morgan used to make a dandy 3 wheeler/ The idea started in England around WW1 and was originally motivated by the difference in taxes levied against 4 wheel vehicles and those with less that 4 wheels.
Nifty modern version although crude.

 

I met a guy 20 tears ago who ran his dodge with a 340 on natural gas. He rigged up a filler at home, it took overnite to fill up. Has anyone here run natural gas? Any tips on conversion?

 

Nice thing about propane is the oil stays clean almost forever. No carbon and waste in the engine means much lower wear. I seem to recall that H2O condensation in the crankcase is a problem but I can't think of why this would be more of a factor in a propane fueled motor. More water released at combustion than with gasoline?

 

I stick it to the man,

I burn gas AND oil

but seriously there is a local rodder who has a t-roadster powered by a motorcycle motor, really bad ass and well engineered, i think it even won it's class in a past oakland roadster show.

 

One of these days I hope to find a deal on a good APU with a starter generator and use it to power an electric car. Trim it out to run on fast food grease.
As far as alternative fuels, how come we have'nt bioengineered a forest of ethanol producing trees? Seems like it should be possible.
In the meantime, gas prices make me want to put the 2x4's on.

 

I agree with scottybaccus, and am going to put my 37 tudor on what we call LPG. Here it is about half the price of petrol(gas), and if I can get 3/4 of the distance to that of petrol, I'm in front. I bought from a swap meet a couple of weeks ago a full setup including a 24 US gallon tank for A$350, to be eventually fitted to my son's 64 Falcon ute that will run a 200 cube motor. He doesn't want to follow his mates with there bling bling Hondas etc, but has to think smart to be able to afford to run his choice of vehicle.

 

My 49 fleetline plans currently call for a 4.3L V6 and OD transmission....until I get the nasty motor done.

If the price of gas keeps rocketing up, I may just keep the V6 in it. I may even see if I can setup the TBI for gas milage.

 

You can make it from anything containing sugar. I know a guy who runs his cars on waste confectionary....which he gets paid to remove from the factory.

Here is a good start,

http://www.mikebrownsolutions.com/amfctoc.htm

 

Interesting. Not really the style I'm after but interesting enough to make me want to see more. If you've got a link to a website or anymore info on this I'd be interested to see it. Would like to know what other guys are doing with these cars.

 

In a light car, like a hot rod, any small v8 with a stock type cam will get good fuel economy, 302 ford with factory hyd. roller cam, 305 chevy with factory hyd. roller cam and vortec heads, 318 dodge with factory roller cam and the new heart shaped combustion chamber heads...307 olds with roller cam.

Or get a Quad 4 olds DOHC engine, or any other 4 cyl DOHC engine ....

Or like some one suggested Get a 350 CI OLDS DIESEL,,, they make good power, good fuel economy, they look like a hot rod v8, you can always swap in a 350 to 455 olds gasoline engine in a couple of hours...same bell housing, motor mounts, pulleys, exhaust manifolds,,,,and they are CHEAP, lots of people will give you one for FREE!!!

here is a link for some OLDS 350 DIESEL stuff,,,

http://members.tripod.com/~A350Diesel/menu.html

 

For traditional rods, as light as they can be, there are a lot of alternatives. Smallblocks can get good fuel mileage, and if you want to be high tech, you can rig up hidden EFI and electronic ignition stuff to get good highway fuel mileage. My ex-roommate's stock '93 Mustang GT got 30 mpg on the highway and ran low 13s with nitrous. Same drivetrain in a car that didnt' weigh 3600 lbs can't do WORSE.

I've thought about putting a Ford 2.3 liter turbo 4 cyl in my '61 Falcon for both power and fuel economy.

OTOH, to those who said electrics aren't quick, check out NEDRA (National Electric Drag Racing Association), with street cars running 10s-12s, and blazing the tires like crazy.

http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/videos/Zombie_7-96_burnout.MOV

http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/videos/nedra2005-hi.mov