does anyone have any pic's,info, websites that pertain to the original hyrdamatic trannies that all the racers used back in tha day ??... thanxs tj
Not me. But I don't want to see this thread die, 'cause I'm interested too. GM hydros were the thing, but that's all I know. Maybe Bob Spar is on here???
i sure hope this thread dosnt die, im very interesred and what i cant figure out is that all of the oldskool racers used them but today you never hear of them...
The most sought after sticker in high school,was the B+M Hydro/Stick man. Check ot old HRMags say''59-63. A lot of gasser cars ran them. they were plenty beefy,even behind a Hemi. sparky
There are several reasons why they aren't used any more. Number one, they are heavy, more than twice the weight of later auto trans. Second the torque convertor doesn't have any torque multipication to speak of, and can't be modified to match the later trans torque convertors. And third, they are expensive to build.
Last year, HRM did a story on a young guy in socal with a '55 Chevy (gasser style) who used a hydro ('55 Pontiac, I believe) behind a wind up small block - said he had to look a long time before finding someone to build it - that info's getting lost in a hurry...(There - I did my part to keep this thread alive until Art Carr gets here)
[ QUOTE ] There are several reasons why they aren't used any more. Number one, they are heavy, more than twice the weight of later auto trans. Second the torque convertor doesn't have any torque multipication to speak of, and can't be modified to match the later trans torque convertors. And third, they are expensive to build. [/ QUOTE ] let me just say to that,one;so what? it's for a big honkin olds.two;it's not a torque convertor,it's a fluid coupler.the existing vanes can be modified to raise the stall speed,if necessary.third;no they aren't.in fact,the thing i like about them is it's still pretty damn easy to find good used units,adjust them properly,and use them daily.i have one in my '54 olds,my brother has one in his '51 hudson.here's a link to help you out-george http://www.rodnkustom.com/rocketeers/hydramatic/index.html
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] There are several reasons why they aren't used any more. Number one, they are heavy, more than twice the weight of later auto trans. Second the torque convertor doesn't have any torque multipication to speak of, and can't be modified to match the later trans torque convertors. And third, they are expensive to build. [/ QUOTE ] let me just say to that,one;so what? it's for a big honkin olds.two;it's not a torque convertor,it's a fluid coupler.the existing vanes can be modified to raise the stall speed,if necessary.third;no they aren't.in fact,the thing i like about them is it's still pretty damn easy to find good used units,adjust them properly,and use them daily.i have one in my '54 olds,my brother has one in his '51 hudson.here's a link to help you out-george http://www.rodnkustom.com/rocketeers/hydramatic/index.html [/ QUOTE ] The question was asked, I answered it. Most people didn't use them in a Big honkin' Olds, they used them in a 34 ford with an Olds motor, and when you could save a couple hundred pounds by switching to a stronger lighter trans, you did, because that was 2 tenths of a second in the quarter. I am aware that the Hydros used a fluid coupling, but the biggest share of the people here wouldn't know the difference. That's why I called it a torque convertor. Back in the day, I was there, you didn't build big heavy cars like Olds, or Caddys, or Buicks, you built light cars with big car motors.And usually a stick shift. I was 33 years old before I had my first car with an automatic trans. It just wasn't cool. And for the most part, the only people that used Hydros for racing, were gas class racers, becaue there wasn't much in the way of manual transmissions that would hold up to a blown motor. But as soon as there was something better, they went to it. In a matter of a couple years, the Hydros were gone. I just had a C6 Ford trans rebuilt, cost $400 parts and labor including a reman convertor. The same guy is doing a dual range Hydro for me, the cost $800, the difference, parts costs.
Hey look @ what the girls are scratching eyes out over! I always thought the ol skool trans to use for quarter mile was the 2 speed powerslide? That 55 Ponch I just bought has a hydra (sounds like some half snake half woman monster from a greek tragedy) anything else you guys wanna spill yer beans about on this trans? Pretty please! Brandy
I believe the dual range allowed you to select first gear or second. While the single range was auto only in those lower gears.
Link, the Linc hysro is a flat pan, not a slant pan. If you have a slant pan there, it's not Linc. You can raise the stall speed by cutting the vanes down, but the couplers are NOT a lock-up design and you increase slippage. In racing, I guess you might get a higher RPM launch at the expense of more slippage in upper RPM. I plan on simply using the smaller diameter Chevy torus, brazed, but without cutting the fins and see how that does. There's a LOT to know about these units. I might put a little more in this thread later, but I'm due for my nap.
I knew George would chime in on this one! He schooled me on the way of the Hydro- I have one in my 29 A- Gets scratch in a few gears, pulls hard, and takes major abuse. You can shift them manually too! jay
When my Grandpa got outta the service, he went to a Technical School here in Detroit on the GI bill. One of the things he learned to do was rebuild Hydramatics. He recently bestowed upon me his official GM Hydramatic manual, circa 1946. It's in really good shape, and has his homework assignments still in it. And I think enjenjo and yorgi are both wrong, I believe it's called a torus. Jay
I know the danger of ridicule from bringing up old threads - I'll chance it anyway. Seems there wasn't a comprehensive answer to the original question. I have done a lot of study on these grand old machines and have rebuilt several. I wrote a fairly long photo article on them for the Gasser Gossip magazine (now Gasser Magazine) published by the Mid Americ Willys Club. I don't remember the issue dates but you can PM me if interested. http://www.gassermagazine.com/ The trannys were developed for use in military tanks in WWII so their strength is no accident. When B&M, Boss Hydro, Hydromotive, etc., etc., etc., 'beefed them up' for racing, they didn't have to do very much to improve on GM's design. The first generation was a 'single range' meaning you could hold it in second and 4th gear but it shifted freely between 3rd-4th. There was no 3rd gear detent. They modified it circa '54 making it a dual range - could hold it in 2nd, 3rd & 4th gear, adding the 3rd gear detent. B&M's famous patent was to install a little slide valve in the governor feed line that allows holding the tranny in 1st gear. Since the tranny uses a fluid coupling and not a torque converter, the original automatic 1-2 shift serves as a pseudo torque converter. In fact gasser racers typically took off in 2nd gear allowing the 1-2 shift to serve that purpose. Starting out in 1st required manually shifting to second only a few feet out of the box and racers were pretty busy at that point in a race trying to keep their beloved Willys on the track! Thus the B&M patent that put them on the map was really mostly useful in mud bog trucks trying to rock out of being stuck! I run one daily in my '36 Willys coupe and it is a great unit. Always amazes me that modern trannys are super efficient, lockup converters, heat shedding aluminum cases, etc., but if they don't have a cooler they fry going to the grocery store. Conversely, hydros had a very inefficient fluid coupling generating a lot of heat, insulating cast iron case, have no provision for cooling, and live forever!
Bob Spar will not want to spend even a minute talking about them. I visited him once to try to get info... boy, what a waste of time. He kept trying to convince me to go with a TH400 or something. He just didn't understand why I wanted to run the old stuff again. At least I got to see the NOS hydro/shifter setup in their showroom.... that was neat.
The dual-range became available in '52. But that seemed to be a transitional year, as the parts books list many parts as '52-only. They made further modifications in '53. Not sure if any of that affected operation, but apparently parts interchange was affected somewhat.
you must be a real dumbass,don't you know you can get a rebuilt C-6 for only $400? seriously though,if you could dig up that article i would really appreciate it.
Are the later dual-range hydros (mid '56-'60 all and '61-'64 Cad and big Olds/Pontiac) any good? I know having one in a stock '60 Catalina was very pleasurable to drive, the folks I got the car from had a ton of trans problems and I have a reciept in the folder on it showing they dropped $800 (circa 1993) for a brand new transmission in it. Seems like the place to ask about it, if not, I can post seperately -
Those are NOT Dual Range Hydramatics, those are Controlled Coupling Hydramatics (called Jetaway by Olds, and ohter names by Pontiac and Cadillac). A totally different animal. And not a good hotrod tranny.
Those Jetaways were truly strange machines. They had the Hydro's fluid coupling instead of a torque converter, then replaced the front clutch pack with a second smaller fluid coupling! Truly not a perfomance unit.
Believe it!! Several years ago I was trying to track down parts for my Dual-Range and a couple old Hydro-Stick decals to run on my '36 Willys coupe so I called B&M. The slack-jawed, mouth-breather that answered my call didn't even know what a Dual-Range Hydro was. Kept trying to sell me a TH350. He said he would ask around the office and get back to me. Of course he never did.
Please keep the info comming, great info. thanks Mine leaks like a bitch I heard they always did, and when they quit, they needed fluid. I know they known as the origenal parts breaker. I can atest to that.....shortly after I got the A-bone on the road, ( Lock Jaw ) I twisted a drive shaft the only new part on the car. Roach
I have a hydro in my 41 olds and the dame thing gets stuck in reverse i have to go from reverse to nuetral then back to drive not that i am doing any neutral drops or anything but its annoying is that common, obviously something is misajusted or screwed any thoughts tom
Your leak is likely due to a failed check valve in the fluid coupling. It isn't a matter of 'if' they fail, rather 'whe' they fail. When they begin to leak, fluid empties out of the fluid coupling which over-fills the tranny pan. Fluid level builds to the height of the tail shaft then it leaks past the splines on the tail shaft/yoke, out the weep hole in the yoke. I fixed this problem in my tranny by sectioning the pan and welding in a 1" wide strip of 18ga sheet metal. I had to extend the dip stick and both pick-up tubes 1" also. Now when the valve leaks, the pan has adequate capacity to prevent fluid building to the peak path. No more leaks! Now if I could stop the constand drip from the rear seal of my '53 hemi . . . . Incidentally, I looked up the issues of Gasser Gossip that have my Hydro articles in them #54 July/August 1997 #55 September/October 1997 #56 November/December 1997 Find them here.
Could be mis-adjusted shift lever (likely) or a warped control valve body. If adjusting the linkage doesn't remedy the problem, take the control valve off and sandpaper the mounting surface flat w/ 400grit on a piece of glass. Clean it VERY well B4 re-installing it. That seems to fix 99% of the control problems on an otherwise sound hydro.
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