Technical Hydraulic roller lifter choices for Chevy 327

Something to consider on the lower end is to put in a "diamond" type of windage tray and a road-race style oil-pan with "trap doors" in it. On the last 383 I built, the dyno operator was surprised on how well the oil pressure held up (increased) all the way up to 6400 rpm - showed that windage was minimized and oil control to the pickup was consistent. Oil pressure went from 76# at 3800 rpm to 108# at 6400 rpm.

Dyno Stats:

Torque: Max - 506 at 4700 rpm
HP: 516 at 6300
​

Oil-System:

Oil-Pump: Mellings 10552 Select - standard spring
Milodon Diamond Scraper: 32250
Weiand Road-Race Pan: 5007
Canton Pickup: 20-071​

Hydraulic Roller Cam Specs (Custom - Chris Straub):

Lift: Intake: .585 lift, Exhaust: .544 lift (with a 1.6 rocker)
Duration @ .050 -- intake = 233, exhaust = .235
Spring pressure: Max seat = 160, Max Open = 400
​

Induction:

Edelbrock RPM Air-Gap,
830 Quick-Fuel carb - synchronized fuel-flow on Primary/Secondary systems at full throttle.
​

Dyno Sheets: See attached

 

I'm not sure I'd relate that 6700 rpm range to a daily driver myself? I did a hydraulic roller cam on my 350 SBC, but I went with a cam that's all in at 6000 rpm's, and figured I'll not hit that too often. My valve train is a set of Dart SHP aluminum heads with roller rockers. Nothing special beyond that and a new set of pushrods to fit the roller lifters. My engine combo makes 419 torque and 430HP with .030" over bore, and really stock bottom end. Just Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, headers, and Quick Fuel 650 carb.
High rpm ranges seem more of a strip built engine than a street engine.

 

I THOUGHT you sounded like one of the Good Guyz (SC)!!
Too bad you don't have your hometown listed on your avatar....
6sally6

 

Oil pan is the old Corvette 6 qt with trap door and windage tray. Stopped by the shop today and grabbed an '1182 forging that's getting offset ground to 3.562" stroke and mains turned to fit the '870 block. Mains on the block have already been strapped, studded and was getting line honed when I got there. Heads just went to Jerry Killian in Warner Robins Georgia for some love.
My machinist/builder was one of the shops Comp Cams used for developing profiles WAY back and we are literally minutes from Darlington. I'm fairly competent but admit there may be some tricks I've not seen yet. I do fly my airplanes behind engines I built.
The whole point of this engine is completely stock external appearance with no more rumble at idle than the old L-79 350hp cam. The combo may look humble but should make my little stripped down '65 'vette go pretty well. I just finished boring a set of side hung float bowls for my improved fuel transfer tube, turning a 3310 into a 1850 look alike. It will be sitting on a Winters Foundry special high performance intake that I'm doing some welding, milling and grinding on. All stock L-79 look on the outside, even the air cleaner.

 

Bitchin

 

High rpm for mountain driving. Deals gap/tail of the dragon. Smugglers Notch, think road race. Access roads to ski areas are epic. Bolton Flats for top end run. Life begins at 140.

 

I street drive my Vette as often as possible , in the summer I drive it to work a couple of times a week. In the winter I drive it to the shop on the weekends if its not raining. It's not a road racer for sure but it does have a stout 377 with a solid flat tappet cam . it see's 7 grand often

 

Mine

 

That's right!!!

 

Perfect!

 

My machinist is convinced we should use a set of solid rollers on the hydraulic roller cam I have. The cam was made from a buggered Ultradyne billet roller so I'm not worried about hurting the cam. He says he builds lots of circle track engines that way. Anyone have experience running a combo like that on the street? Do I use springs like a hydraulic roller or a solid roller? I already have a set of freshly rebuilt Crower solids with pin oiling on the shelf. Have a rev kit for those lifters on the shelf as well.

 

My first concern would be the billet core and the heat treating. When mechanical roller cams are made they first copper plate the billet core (before lobes are ground). Then they pre-grind the lobes and journals to about .030 oversize. Then the core is heat treated. The heat treating penetrates into the areas that have been pre-ground. The copper prevents the rest of the core from getting heat treated and becoming brittle. Then, the cam is finish ground to the final spec.

Now, if somebody regrinds that cam, my guess is that they are not heat-treating the core and they may or may not have ground through the heat treating on the new lobe profile. This is especially true if they took what was once a mechanical profile and reground it to a hydraulic profile - they tend to have a lot less lift and are not as aggressive. So, they probably ground right through the heat treating. There is no way I can know this for sure, but I'd be thinking about it. Hydraulic rollers require a lot less spring pressure than mechanical rollers - as their profiles are not as aggressive. So, you might be just fine with mechanical lifters - and you'll probably need to use heavier springs than on hyd rollers (I know that is what I'd do). Also, using the rev kit will keep the rollers on the cam and they won't be getting "banged" every time the lash is being taken up.

Will mechanical spring pressures wear out this cam core (due to potential heat-treating issues) - I have no way of knowing. I would surely be inspecting the top-end on a frequent basis and be dang sure my lash is being checked/set on a regular basis. Mechanical lifters require more service/maintenance than hydraulics - just the way it is.

With all that said, if it was mine and if I have the $$$, I'd get a mechanical roller steel billet cam that is new and is designed for the lifters you have. And I'd run the springs the manufacturer recommends. And a rev kit. But hey, I'm spending your money! LOL

 

You might want to give the guys at Bullet Cams a call - explain exactly what your engine has in it, the application, gearing, usage, expectations, etc. Check and see what a custom billet mechanical roller would cost you. That is the route I'd go . . .

 

Typically when a part gets heat treated is heated long enough that the piece is hardened entirely. after machining the part may then be nitrided and that may be where the copper plating comes in to play. It may also be self defeating as the part should be baked to relieve nitrogen embrittlement. That is the same process used with Lycoming aircraft engine billet cams

 

Bullet ground the cam on the Ultradyne core. I did call their techline just a few days ago to ask if there would be any problem and the response was that it would live a long time as the lash would only be a few thou cold.

 

I didn't get to run it due to a slight warp in the cam, but I was going to run solid rollers on a hydraulic roller cam in my 505. Builder said we had to use more spring than the hydraulic cam called for when using solid rollers. When that cam turned out to be warped, I wound up calling Comp cams and their tech said the builder was right. I'll have a new hydraulic/solid roller cam in another week hopefully. Tech said this cam is billet and don't go under the minimum but run as much spring pressure as the builder wants for the RPM we'll be running.

Just saw you mention the lash. Mine is a big block but we were told to run .008 cold for the solids up to a max of .015

 

I'm also trying to build several engines just to use up parts I already have laying around, ya'll know, old fashion hot rodding parts supply. My big money goes into my airplanes, just spent $43,000 to overhaul the 180 horsepower Lycoming for my Great Lakes biplane. Crankshaft alone was $11k.

 

Since you talked to Bullet, just follow their recommendations on spring pressure. You'll want more pressure than a hydraulic roller - so if you already have springs on your heads, you'll need to change them. If you're planning on some higher RPM fun, the last thing you want to do is float the lifters, that is what breaks the axles in the rollers - bad JuJu happens from there. I also think the rev kit isn't a bad idea - since you already have it. Best of luck with the engine!

 

Cams are not heat treated all the way through - there is only so much you can change a profile and not go through the heat treating. The billet material matters a lot - the heat-treating depth on an 8620 AQBQ core is different than 5150/5160.

Here is a little info from a guy at Ultradyne - talking about this specific issue (a guy was posting about regrinds and profiles):

"Cams are made to a given lift, duration, and LSA, and then heat-treated, either carburizing (8620) or induction-hardening (other steels ending in -50 or higher). How long, and how deep, the heat-treat goes is very important. Many cams have only .080" or less of heat-treat.

Cams can generally be ground +/-3* in LSA, and +/- .025" in lobe lift. These are the more important numbers.
So this means you cannot regrind a .370" lobe lift, 106 LSA cam into a .450" lobe lift, 112 LSA cam. The grinding process with go through the heat-treat on both the nose, and on the sides. You can't grind a 106 LSA into a 108 LSA, then later try for 104, or 110. You'll go through the heat-treat.
If you keep the LSA the same, or just a 1* difference, keep the lobe lift close to the original, you'll be much happier. The actual shape of the lift curve has more importance than either of those two......."​

 

My machinist is one of the good ones. I'm building my '65 from a birdcage I put together from aftermarket pieces as are all the body parts. A few original bits like doors that have been gutted and not installing anything that isn't needed to make it go. No spare tire/wheel, bumpers fell off, ect.... Half height windshield, FIA headlights. RADIO DELETE!!!!

 

Had a nice conversation with John Partridge from Bullet Cams. They did the regrind on the billet cam I have and assured me that they won't regrind anything that's not close enough in spec so as not to affect durability. He also offered thoughts on springs for my set up. I feel very much more confident with what I want to do with this engine. Should be fun.

 

Awesome, John is a great guy - he has ground multiple custom cams for my various projects. Everything from a SBF, to early Hemi, to Bonneville Flathead Cadillac, etc.. Also, he did the majority of the blown alky cams for Fowler Engines - who has built some of the best higher-horsepower blown alky Hemis and BBCs out there.

 

He had my cam specs in front of him and suggested 175/400lbs on the springs. With the rev kit and just a few thou lash cold it should be fun. You would find most of my engine builds underwhelming. Right now I have an A65 Continental(think Piper Cub) on a stand. I'm "hot rodding" it for an experimental homebuilt Cub. Had some custom 8:1 pistons made to replace the 6.5:1, stellite faced valves installed and blueprinting/balancing so it'll turn 2600rpm instead of 2375. Better stand back, it's going to be a powerful beast to handle in the air.

 

My neighbor is building a super-light single-engine plane with a Continental in it. It took 2.5 years to get the engine - as COVID really screwed the pooch on deliveries. You might even know him --> Mike Barbie. He has been flying for years and also is one of the major competitors in high-end model airplanes. Best of luck with your projects, glad you are John at Bullet are in sync.