Hydraulics or bags?

I'm told i can get complete NEW hydraulic set up way cheaper than bags. So, what's everyone's 2 cents on to bag or juice the 60 Pontiac?

 

Hydraulics are NOT something to skimp on so they will be more expensive. cheaper parts mean more problems. If you go with Hydros, use top name brands and the best stuff you can afford. good cylinders, pumps and dumps are incredibly important. The good stuff costs money, but is better in the long run. fittings and lines arernt cheap either. I love hydros, but they do require mantainance no matter what anybody says. Batteries and pumps are heavy and take up lots of space

Bags can be had much cheaper. ive got less than 1000 bucks in my setup, but i peiced stuff together through frineds and what i had or could make. Another 100 bucks and its complete. Air fittings and lines can be had at any truck stop on the road. Everything is lighter than hydraulics. you dont have all the weight of the betteries pumps and cylinders. Air tanks and compressors can be tucked away in corners or unused space.

The ride of both is very nice if installed correctly. Hydraulics can ride just as good, if not better than a stock suspension with the right parts. Coils, shocks, and accumulators are all important. Airbags, setup up correctly, will ride the same. good shocks and bag placement can make or break ride quality. In the end, airbags have less moving parts and are generally maintenaince free. Waiting for air is a disadvantage if your switch happy. Hydros are more fun and with a single charge can last you a couple weeks.

but for that pontiac, id juice it. Pro hopper and CCE are tried and true. Reds also

www.prohopper.com
www.coolcars.org
www.redshydros.com

www.suicidedoors.com
www.gravity-werx.com
www.fbimini.com

 

How do you get a good ride wth hydraulics? My understanding is the cylinder is pretty much rigid, extended or compressed, and you have it mounted to 2 or 3 coils from a cut down 1-ton truck spring , which wouldn't give much of a soft ride. That' an over-simplified description of how it works, but I believe that's pretty close to how it works.
I was playing around aout 10 years ago wth the idea of a fancy car streerod suspension similar to a inboard coilover/pushrod indy car setup, except leave the coilovers on the outside and have a hydraulic cylinder inboard with a rocker arm to raise ad lower the car and still have several inches of suspension travel. Then airbags came along and I figured it became moot. None of that applies to traditional rods, however.

 

After having both air and hydraulics, I would choose the air. My experience is that the ride quality was better with the air and there was less mess to deal with. I don't know if it matters to you but my air system took up less room and was weighed a lot less.

 

ONE battery (the one under the hood) is all i need. And Pro-Hopper is the source i was told is WAY under $1000 for everything for front/back.

 

First of all the 1 ton truck spring i believe is for hopping. I just use stock coils. Also, you should be able to "lay" with around 6 coils if you do the cup/donut thing right. I've done a lot of this stuff over 30 yrs ago. A "full" coil's around 9-10 coils (guess), and if you cut just 2 your car's pretty dam low. Cut 1 1/2 more and you're on the snubbers (another guess). If you've made your cups/donuts right, you should be right there (5-6 1/2 coils NOT 2-3 coils). Anyway, you should get the idea anyway. If you run 2-3 coils everything's just bouncing around loose when the car's "laying"

 

GROUCHO, YOU KNOW HOW I FEEL ABOUT AIR BAGS !!

IF IT WERE ME, AND IM JUST AN ASS, ID PUT HYDRO'S ON IT !!!

JUST THINK, YOU COULD LOWER IT AND NOT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT IT SOUNDIN LIKE YOU JUST BLEW OUT A TIRE !!!!

 

Accumulators my friend. Accumulators are basically a nitrogen filled expansion chamber. they give the fluid inside the lines and cylinders room to move. therefore they suspension cylinders actually will retract and extend with the road surface. they work great for the rear of a vehicle. Having them on the front can casue the suspension to be too squishy. Running coils with donuts is also a way and the best way for the front. You dont necessarily use a 1 ton coil all the time. You simply choose a coil with a desired spring rate and height for what you want you system to do. Ive seen anything from honda civic coil over springs to 5 ton springs used.

by front/back im assuming youll be using two pumps/4 dumps. That will pretty much kill the battery and have "runaways" all the time. A runaway is a stuck solenoid due to low voltage and severe volatge drops and they suck! A dedicated set of batteries will be the best and most reliable for those pumps. at least 2 per pump to keep them 24v. it will also be a faster system and have to work less to get that eavy car in the air. Low voltage will also contribute to burning up pumps. If you want to keep you batteries charged, look into a Streetcharger which keeps them charged while driving

 

I know, i hate that "elephant taking a piss" sound. Fucking annoying. "IF" i do bag the 60, it'll have Smittys, flowmasters, and turbo mufflers on the exhaust side (300 lbs) so i don't have to hear it. Like a little, little baby fart.

 

I had a "demo" today and it comes up (heavy front) as fast as a non hopping bag setup. Also, i was told if i don't "lock" it and put too much pressure in the system there shouldn't be any runawy issues. If i go "juice" and it does stick, i'll add ONE more battery to use in conjuction with my under hood battery (24 volts). Lift up in garage, go to wherever, drop it, pick it up when i leave(one end at a time) and go home. I'm 51 yrs old, i won't be going, hey look at me , i'm a dork (up/down, up/down). I figuire a 3 count to raise each end shouldn't heat up the pump at all. And it won't be any time soon that i'd be using it again (plenty of time to lose whatever heat DID occur)

 

Another thing we did yrs ago was one pump for everything. Large diameter cylinders (kinda slow but EASY on the single battery). Cut the rams on the rears so they were at desired "ride" at full extension. Hit the switch and the rear comes up (lighter than the front of the car) until the rams "top" out. Then the fliud has to go to the front, you then stop at desired height. When you park, hit the switch, front drops (heavier with eng/trans) and then the back. A bonus is the rear CAN'T lean on corners because they are topped out

 

I saw that demo today too,at the Long Beach Swap Meet.I saw your ride..I think.Your already selling it?I'd go with the bags.

 

I don't want to sell yet, but since i was there i might as well put something for a price just in case. Sometimes when you DO want to sell, noone wants the shit. So, i now almost ALWAYS have a little sign on the dash. Ya never know. Story-I had a fucking BEATER wagon a few yrs ago. BEAT. I had a piece of paper with $2500 written on it. My friends laughed at me for months. One day a guy calls and asked if it ran. I asked him why he asked me that. He said he saw it in the parking lot of a Mexican restaurant and he asked the Busboy about it. The Busboy said, hell, that thing's been sitting there for MONTHS. Well, it was only there a half hour while i ate 2 tacos. He bought the pile the next day

 

i would juice it.ive had alot of cars on both.the only problem with juice now-a-days is resale.everybody is so pro bags, by the way both my caddys are on bags for that simple fact.if any q's please pm me.ive got a decent amount of experince with both.if done right with the correct springs hydros will ride way better than any bag setup.

 

Stiff suspension = less lean in corners.

Low car = low center of gravity.

A low car with stiff suspension generally corners better than a tall car with squishey suspension. The high, soft car would tend to roll while cornering (like an RV). The low, stiff car would stay flat (like a NASCAR) and keep all four wheels gripping the pavement.

When you let the air out of the bags to lower the car, there is less air preasure in the bags, and the suspension becomes soft and squishey. Air them up again to try and regain your stiff suspension, and the center of gravity raises with the car. Therefore, you can have a low squishey car, or a high stiff car, but with air bags, you can't have a low car with stiff suspension.

Raising or lowering with hydraulics would not change the spring rate.

Just a theory. Anyone have experience?

 

Theres a LOT of good and bads on both. I always say air, becuase if you pop an air line, its just air....pop a hydro line...youve got a real mess on your hands. Hydros can run JUST AS GOOD AS AIR if setup with the right spring and accumulators. hydros are always their, bags you gotta wait on tank refills, but usually thats not a huge issues with the trucks ive been in with bags.


Also, like chopshop said, if you go either way buy the best you can afford and MAKE SURE ITS SET UP CORRECTLY. hydraulics will cost more because of batteries and all usually. Id rather run bags, but hydros have their place.

 

wsdad is correct.with bags the only way to change the ride is to add more air witch in return raises the car.with hydros the ride will remain the same rate through out the lengh of your cylinder,weather your car is 1" or 8"s off the ground.

 

This has been a question of mine for a while. Good thing you bring it up. What "IF" the right pressure for a good "ride" puts you at a height that sucks? And just how much would juicing my car affect the resale if it's clean and works, and rides great?

 

it will ride like shit if you ride with it all the way up...i have hydros on my 68 caddy...2 pumps 4 marine batts...cut coils on the front cylinders mounted on the axel in the rear with accumalators..the ticket is the accumlators...$100 bucks per accum...with the weight of my car and bumping the car upabout 4'' or so to ride i might be able to ride several hours without charging....i have have both bags on my 39 and my minitruck and hydros on my caddy....bags are much better..maintance free..hydros not so much

 

yo yo yo put HYDRO"S for shizzel my nizzel car be lookin sweet with some dingel balls and cat hair on the dash yo diggity.come on groucho just break down and buy the bags.

 

You're reading it wrong. With the rams on the rear cylinders cut to ride height at full extension, there's no compressing the spring like you're thinking. It'll act/ride like it's part way up.

 

I say hydraulics for your car simply 'cuz they're cool and traditional. im thinkin' of dissin the bags on my olds for a two pump setup. just a little somethin' to go up and down and side to side for shows and shit. bags have been real tempermental for me, but i got a friend [speedaddict] who swears he's got a guy for me, so we'll see.

nice ride, btw. really dig that cremesicle-ish suede with the metalflake scallops. pix dont do that thing justice i bet.

 

Hey man, thanks a lot! I'm waiting for a buddy to airbrush a Creamsicle on the lower front fenders (about the size of my hand).

 

Groucho,

Well, you'll have to make the final decision which why to go hydraulics or bags. I for one have had bags on two rides and I love them. Bags are so easy to put in and there's no maintenance. If you want to get real low in front and back, you'll need a triangular four bar on the rear. With the four bar on the rear you can sat it on the ground. You can use parallel leaf springs, you just can't go as low in the rear. The big plus for air bags is they ride so well.
I had to bag the front of my 49 Caddy, so I could raise it to get into the drive my Caddy sets so low without bags.

Save money and work bag it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cruiser 49

 

I have owned vehicles with both and I am with Eddie (slammedpup) on this one. Hydraulics, no matter how simple the set-up is are a lot more maintence than any air ride setup I have ever owned. And the worst thing that an airbag setup has ever leaked on my driveway is air...

 

Decisions, decisions. One thing, is that for me to juice it is easier. I used to do all my friends cars 30+ yrs ago. Kinda fun actually. Especially on a full coil sprung car.

 

If you are going with hydros you best spend some time with some people who have them...and i don`t mean guys that just use them when they park their ride.You need to roll with some lowriders so you can see all the crap that can go wrong...and it does go wrong.Here are some examples....you are cruising along and you decide to throw your switches,you lock up your ride...and a solenoid gets stuck...quickly.....WHAT DO YOU DO!!!!........to late, your ride just burned up!Heres another...your driving along...not messing with your switches at all.Then out of nowhere your car starts dropping down,you pull over to the side.Now you need to diagnose the problem and repair...if you are not handy with hydros....the fun can end very quickly and be very costly.Airbags is the way to go for the beginer,less hassles,little maintenance.Hope this helps.

 

Just a couple little things to add...on my dump valves, I have fittings that make it practically silent when I let the air out (can't remember what they're called...they look like the metal screen in some fuel filters).

I've never thought my car was squishy when riding low...maybe not as stiff, but not like the feeling of a car with torched springs and bad shocks...Dramamine anyone?

Bryan

 

I went to a lowrider show last month here in San Jose and even the lowriders are all going air. Much cleaner to deal with any leaks. My air drives smooth, I have two switches (front and back)and have no problems with leaning on corners.

 

AMEN...the only reason i have hydros on my caddy ..a friend of mine was in need of some quick cash..and i wanted the car to lay (because i have a problem with driving a stock height vehical..i got the 2 pumpsand cylinders for $300 and the batts.. brand new for $150(super deal)...after the install it rode like a brick on a concrete road in the rear ..so i bought the accumalators for a $100 a peice......the accumlators are a must if ya run the hydros...it now rides better than a cadillac...also if ya blow a seal in the cylinders its a pain in the ass to take out the cylinder and replace the seal if you can find the proper seal for that cylinder..most cases if you blow a bag or line most places sell tire plugs and air line ...sorry for the long replys..but ive been there several times in the past 10 years