I have my 2 compressors and air tank in my trunk, with 170 psi switch, running 1/2 lines, 4ply bags, my rear air bags pop up fast! but my front airbags dont move! i had the front valves in the back but they did not lift the front bags so i moved the valves to the front of the car and it lifts like one inche. WHAT IM I DOING WRONG? i thought i cut the front brackets wrong but ive taken the front bags out and they extend 8 inches, and they get nothing close to that, if i cut the brackets wrong the bags should still extend 8 inches! I NEED SOME HELP! THANKS GUYS Eddie
Do you have a guage on the front lines? is it holding pressure? what are the bags rated at 2500lbs? 2600? what are they lifting?
id see if your release valve switch? is working okay, my buddies use to have problems just like yours...
with one tank you might have to wait for the compressors to fill it up again. all your weight is up front and it takes a lot of psi to lift it.
so far i only have one gauge and its on the tank, i moved the valves to the front of the car so the lines fill all the way to the valve at front, psi rating there is 170, 2500lbs bags, and i wait for the tank to say 170 psi then try to get the front to lift and it lifts like one inch! release valve switch? you mean the pressure switch? the pressure switch turns off at 170 psi!
I assume you checked for kinks in your line or any other restrictions and that the soleniod valves are operating correctly AND plumbed in the correct direction for flow. Is there a possibility that the front end is bound up somehow like improperly designed shock mounts or control arms hanging up on the frame. Are the air springs sized correctly to lift the weight of your front suspension? Some more information would be helpfull in solving this.
-Ya, first thing to check would be kinks in the line. -The valve to the front may not be opening all the way. -Make sure the valve 'inlet' and 'outlet' are correct. -The bag may be mounted too close to the pivot point causing too much leverage on it. -Look for other stuff like ElPolacko said, could be binding. Shocks, balljoints, brakelines, tierods, steering arms etc. What kind of car is it anyway?
Your problem is that you have airbags. This is a triumph of marketing over common sense and correct suspension engineering. Do you see any car manufacturer offering air bags as the sole means of suspension? GM tried in 1959 as an option and failed miserably as they found out to their cost, and very quickly withdrew the air suspension option. Airbags ONLY function should be as load helpers. It's really dead simple - airbags are like basket balls - they bounce. They also puncture - easily. From a suspension engineering point of view there is only one correct setting for front suspension - a so called 'sweet spot', which is where everything works in harmony. That's why you take cars to alignment shops - to make sure that everything is in the correct relationship to everything else. So how the hell are you going to find that 'sweet spot' every time, when you are screwing up the front suspension geometry every time you pump up the front air bags? Doubtless there will be a tirade of attempted justification from all the air bag 'experts' here, but talk to a professional suspension engineer such as Herb Adams, and see what they have to say about air bags. As Herb said about urethane suspension bushings - they look great on the shelf in the parts store. I have said it before but it bears repeating - airbags belong in Congress not on cars.
the majority of semis use airbags. they are very reliable, failures are usually due to improper installation or abuse. airbags bounce, so? coil, leaf, torsion, air, it doesn't matter the form of spring, they bounce, all of them. that's why we use shocks. in fact air springs oscillate at a lower frequency than steel springs, making damping easier for the shock. one of my cars with airbags doesn't even have front shocks, but you'd never know it while riding in it. try that with steel springs. the only similarity between an airspring and a basketball is they are both rubber with air inside. most installations have the airbag fairly well protected from road debris, so punctures are not really an issue. your brake lines or fuel tank would be at equal risk of damage. there is not a sweet spot, there is a range of acceptable suspension geometery. for a street driven vehicle, that range is quite large. as we push the limits of the usable range of suspension travel, the only price most of us pay is in tire wear. i can't speak for everybody, but i build my cars to sit very low, and are aligned properly at a low height, because that's how i drive them, the bags only see maximum lift to clear obstacles. yeah, you have to pay attention to bumpsteer, but a smart builder would regardless of their spring choice. what does Herb Adams have to say about airbags? why do you quote him on something completely unrelated to your rant? no doubt, most pros won't go for airbags in a performance handling application, but that is not why WE run them. i don't try to hit 1g lateral force in my car. the airbags get me down the road in great comfort, and allow me the convenience to clear speedbumps etc. when need be, or adjust for hundreds of pounds of baggage on a trip. what suspension would you recommend that can do all that airbags can?
...well said Ray. and as for Weasel, taken from your very own biography: " There is no set formula for hot rodding. " -marty
I see we have another self described authority on yet one more subject... Jason. I run bags, I set up bags, I like bags, I trust bags.....
Does GM offer a vehicle with a factory chop? No. Loud exhaust? No. Flat black paint? No. Cool shifters? No. Anything cool? Rarely. If nobody did cool $hit to their cars, we'd all be driving the same thing...
Working for Freightline Test, we installed link suspention and airbags in the front along with the usual rear bags, ran for years with out a single problem. Used for long haul, and at the test tracks for severe use. Bags are on all my cars, or in the process of being installed, Oregon roads suck, running low all the time is a tough option, I will take a little tire wear.
I'm so glad a voice of reason showed up. You argument against bags is that they "bounce" and that since GM couldn't mass produce a reliable setup in 1958-59, that air suspension is not reliable in general. Well, since you are the owner of a 58 Plymouth, I'll assume you know that MoPar offered the 350 B motor with EFI that year. It was a complete failure, ~50 were ever produced, and most if not all were recalled and outfitted with dual quads. By your rational, EFI was also a bad idea and is unreliable. This is also conveniently omits the fact that commercial vehicles such as semis log millions of trouble free miles on air ride. Since 1959, our great nation has managed to land a man on the moon and fit a computer into your pants pocket...I think a bunch of hot rodders can take some modern technology and a little engineering and manage to make an old car ride reliably on air suspension
Lincoln Navigators and some Ford Expeditions have factory rear airbags. Alot of others Like Escalades have coil springs with airshocks. I've fixed hundreds of hack bag jobs and have seen how they fail, badly. If done right, they can be very reliable.
I love how a guy asks for help and gets a sermon. Bags on customs are here to stay. Get over it. They're as good, or bad as the person who sets them up, like most things. Back to the original poster, can you post a pic of the setup? I've seen cars that didn't get any lift in the front because the cups for mounting the bags were just too short. Have you also tried swapping the front and rear valves since you know the rear ones work?
I agree, all Weasel managed to do was get this guy a bunch of posts not answering his question - good job. Back to the subject: MyBootsOnFire has a valid point, if your cups are too short and your bags aren't deflated at rest when you air them up they will spend all their air space filling the void. Also watch your connections like elbows, reducing bushings etc. Some of the lower quailty, ie. hardware store fittings aren't machined well and your "1/2 inch" line ends up being 1/4" at some juction or turn resulting in your whole system past that point effectively being 1/4"
Do you hear air sound when you flip the switch? it sounds like you have something wired incorrectly, maybe your release valve opening instead of closing. i would have someone listen to the valves when you hit the switch (make sure the tank is full. or else you have a bad seal where the line screws into the bag..) the air has to be going somewhere (if its being allowed to exit the tank)
Exactly as predicted, the airbag 'experts' have come out of the woodwork. I am having a hard time recalling if any racing car of any kind that has used airbags or, should they more correctly be called air springs? Is there perhaps a technical reason for them not being sanctioned for racing purposes - maybe safety, maybe they are simply not up to it as a means of suspension? In California, for example, it is illegal to drive or modify a car where any part of the chassis or any vehicle part rides or can fall, in the event of component failure, below the bottom of the road wheels. Here is the official text: Modification of Vehicles <!-- #EndEditable --> <!-- #BeginEditable "section_number" -->24008<!-- #EndEditable -->. <!-- #BeginEditable "section_content" -->It is unlawful to operate any passenger vehicle, or commercial vehicle under 6,000 pounds, which has been modified from the original design so that any portion of the vehicle, other than the wheels, has less clearance from the surface of a level roadway than the clearance between the roadway and the lowermost portion of any rim of any wheel in contact with the roadway.<!-- #EndEditable --> <!-- #BeginEditable "addl_section_content" --> <!-- #EndEditable --> <!-- #BeginEditable "section_change_history" -->Amended Ch. 462, Stats. 1984. Effective January 1, 1985.<!-- #EndEditable --> <!-- InstanceBeginEditable name="sec_note_sec_1" --><!-- InstanceEndEditable --> <!-- InstanceBeginEditable name="sec_number2" --><!-- InstanceEndEditable --> This is a part of the vehicle code specifically implemented to prevent a catastrophe in the event of system failure, whereby the vehicle would gouge up the road and could cause major injuries or fatalities as a result. Thus, many air spring equipped vehicles would not be in compliance with the provisions of California's vehicle code and therefore completely illegal (and over the past few years I have seen several rods and customs stranded like beached whales and laying, chassis on the ground, on or near public highways, due to air spring failure). It may well be that similar provisions exist in the vehicle code of other states. So, aside from the basic safety issues, I guess we have a bunch of advocates knowingly endorsing modification of vehicles to be in breach of the vehicle code. Back to the 'experts'....
damn, looks like all cali customs shops are out of work now that everyone knows that modifications to the car are illegal. actually any mod to a car is illegal in ca. i assume its because it causes cancer or something. most people with bags know that there is a chance of sacrificing some driving comfort for a certain look. lincolns, even the cars, came with air suspecsion. maybe this guy is right about bags being bad, but i bet he likes watching all the lowriders with hydros having a blast. or squirt. or what ever they call it. and i dont think he will tell them their cars arent going to ride the same as factory. its all about the look here, not function.
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