hi guys , I am new to the h.a.m.b. and I am hoping to get some help with a issue im having. I am trying to find out a few things. I have a 1951 oldsmobile 98 with the olds 303 ,hydromatic trans, manual steering ,manual brakes ,etc. I pulled the gearbox seal and am trying to replace it. the car was a really clean find and has almost no rust on it.the steering gear pitman seal(rubber) was cracked so I bought a seal to replace it.the part number I found was NATIONAL Part # 50151S Outside Diameter: 1.565" for Manual Steering. Ive used two methods trying to get it to seat and ruined 2 seals . one was a socket to fit the rim of the seal (tried tapping it in)and the second was doubled up the seal put it on the steering shaft,put the pitman arm on and tried tightening the nut using the pitman to put the seal into place.both of these methods did not work.i do not know if the seal is wrong or if its the wrong way to install it. I would rather not pull the box out of the car if possible. another question I had was is this gearbox interchangeable with any other ones? I would like to update the vehicle to power steering but I am having a issue locating the info I need to make this happen.any help would be great!!
Ruined...what failed, did the metal shell of the seal collapse inward or just buckle under the push, or did the rubber lip part fold up or fail??
most people just fill them with grease . you are right about not wanting to remove it . they dont give up without a helluva fight . really tight fit .
If it's like my 55 chevy, the seal is the wrong one, it fits later model GM steering gears, but is listed in the catalog for the earlier ones. It's kind of hard to get in and measure for what size seal you need, with the gearbox in the car. But it's probably National 312140 that you need. I googled it and found a long discussion...the seal you got is about 1/16" inch too big to fit in the hole
Or any good quantum mechanic should be able to get a seal that can occupy a space smaller than itself...
I am seeing the possibility now that the seal is too large.the metal sleeve is the part that is warping/ bending....I am willing to try the National 312140 seal.at this point I believe it worth a shot..... Thank you for the advise! Does anyone have a suggestion of a newer power steering box what would work with the stock setup?
Squirrel, how did you get the seal in.I think that seal you gave me the number for, was the right one , but I did manage to mess the first one up.was there a special tool to use for this?I have one extra seal still. Thank again!! Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
I have a lathe, I can make the right seal driver for whatever it is I'm working on. Maybe you could find a piece of tubing or pipe that will fit over the shaft, and fully contact the seal. But I usually take the steering box out and replace the bushings, then install the seal, it's easy when the pitman shaft is not in the way. Using the correct lube in the box helps too....see if you can get some corn head grease at a farm supply.
You might try using PVC pipe for a driver, you could even slit it and put a hose clamp around it to make it a bit smaller if needed. Make sure the end that contacts the seal, contacts it fully.
Try a bit of lube/grease on the outside edge of the seal also,that is once you know you have the correct seal.
I have tried using a little grease, anti seize .a socket etc.it turns out this box was suppose to have a felt push in seal with a metal sleeve/ retainer holding it in.it still seems that the seal is a little to large.from the looks of it it becomes more narrow as it gos in.how far I'd the seal go in.was it flush? I can remove the box but would rather not .I want to have it seal for now since I'm planning on going to power steering this fall.does anyone know of a power steering gearbox that is available the should bolt up with little to no mods? Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
OK.I found a vintage oil seal for the Saginaw ball and nut manual gearbox.it was manufactured by c/p part number11055. These are the specifications on the seal. Specifications Product NumberC/R 11055 Shaft Size (Inch)1.125 Bore OD (Inch)1.438 Seal OD (Inch)1.442 Width (Inch).203TYPEHM14LIPr Temperature (°F)-40 to 250 Temperature (°C)-40 to 121 Detail CLEARANCE D .270 Oil Seal Explanation I've also attached a picture of the seals .I am going to try it tomorrow and see what happens.all the info I found on this gearbox, basically states, this box uses a felt and retainer plate seal and they didn't make newer type seal for it , and they would only really fit unless modified. This 11055 actually looks very close but after installing it I will see if it works for sure. I'm keeping my fingers crossed here,..... Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
OK here's an update on the 1951 Oldsmobile 98. The 5051S National and 312140 seal are not correct for the Saginaw ball and nut style manual steering gear pitman seal. I tried multiple times with both of those seals and neither one of those were correct. after locating older cross reference materials I learned, the skf 11055 is the right one .What ended up happening was they damaged the bore and when I tried installing them.I installed the 11055 and it fit perfectly( I used a socket to tap it in and gently tapped it in, then with a flathead screwdriver moving it slightly(rotating around after each time I tapped it), but unfortunately my previous attempts with those other seals scratched up the bore causing it to leak.I had to remove it and I put a thin layer of gasket sealent on the outside of the replacement seal .it has been OK since I did all that that.I hope this helps anyone else stuck in this situation. If it doesn't look like it will fit, don't force it.thanks for everyone's info!! Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
It hasn't leaked a bit since the new seal.now all I have to do is put everything all back together , and clean it up really good. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
I ordered the 11055 seal for a 58 chevy, we'll see how it works. too bad Chevy doesn't sell the 266316 bushings any more....
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