i think i figured out why it wasnt starting... this isnt good

so, i am an idiot.

since buying my 292 v8 y block back in september, i never once removed the valve covers, and i never heard it run in person, i thought i heard it running on the phone when talking to the guy the day i bought it, but now i dont know....

so as you may know me and my dad have been struggling to get my 58 ford up and running again after an engine swap. well, today i took off the valve covers, turned it over, and all of the rocker arms went up and down.

all but 3 on the driver side.

the push rods on those 3 were not even on the rocker arms, they were in that little hole past the cam shaft. one was wayyyyyyy down there, not even a long screwdriver can get to that one.

WTF!!! ive had the worst weekend ever i think car wise....

break it to me easy guys if this is very bad, im not sure if it is or not, or how expensive this is going to be.

but yea my grandpa said that im gonna have to take the heads off, and he thinks its the cam shaft but im not sure... cuz the other ones were going up and down, its just those 3 that werent. we're not sure what would cause just those 3 not to come back up again.

but yea im so.... whats the word... in disbelief. i hope i didnt get scammed out of 600 bucks for a new motor and all these parts ive bought for it.

any ideas on how to help me out, and what would cause those 3 push rods to stay down in that little hole. could they be bent possibly?

 

You should be able to pull the intake and see what's going on with the pushrods. I think this problem is caused by whatever is causing the engine not to start, not neccessarily causing the no start problem problem. good luck...

 

i sure hope its as easy as that sounds... i doubt it will be. my dad will check it out while im at school tomorrow.

 

Which 3 were not moving, the ones at the back of the engine? Does the engine look clean inside? Could the pushrods just be off the lifter? I would start by yanking the intake and see what you can see from there. I dont know a thing about that engine so hopefully some better knowledge will come in and help. Put the engine type in the thread title if you could, may help.

 

Doesnt a Y block have a rocker shaft? Is that broken?

 

ya it does, and it isnt broken, me and my grandpa took that off to get a better look down the little hole where the pushrods are. and the 3 that werent going up were in the middle kinda. i think we're gonna have to take the intake manifold off tomorrow and see what we can do from there. i hope that cam shaft isnt broke. if so thats going to be very expensive i think

 

if the cam was broken evrythin to the rear of the break wouldn't move, not just 3 in the middle.

 

get the cherry picker and pull it out ... sounds like a thorough rebuild is close at hand,,,
if it is collapsed lifters that's not sooo bad but as the thing was been cranked over and over sounds like the cam may be damaged now ...:

rebuild engine kit parts is not so terribly expensive as the machine work will be..to check the innards for problems

any recoarse with the engine seller ?


believe it there are other engines out there that run ..
good luck

 

didnt think of that. but yea good point, and its not just 3 in a row that arent moving. it goes like this

good one
bad one
good one
bad one
good one
good one
bad one
good one

 

and unfortuantley i lost the previous owner's number, i thought i had it still saved in my emails but nope, didnt have them, i looked.... really upset about that.

i was afraid that we'd have to take the whole thing out again. man this sucks, i thought i was so close to finally starting it, then wham.... just my luck

 

All the bad ones are intakes. That almost tells us that those intake valves are sticky. This motor can have broken lifters, but not collapsed lifters. Drain the coolant and pull the intake and the valley cover.
PM me if you like and I will walk you through the diagnosis.

 

Sounds like a new cam is in order. I wish I had one to hook you up with, except my Y block cam got torn into 4 pieces.

Better you learn this now when you're young. Spend more money, do it right, and you will save money and time down the line. I learned the hard way too.

 

Jason: Ole don's analysis is very good and I agree. Chances are that you have issues with cam/lifters/pushrods/rockers. Let's just hope that none of the valves have hit the pistons.

I would go ahead and remove the intake manifold. From there you will probably get a more detailed look at the three lifters that are not (supposedly) moving. When you get the manifold off, back the three valve adjusters (on rocker arms) off till you can feel play. Now crank the engine (by hand is better than starter) slowly till you see each of those lifters move at all. The outside of the lifter should still move if lifter is not broken. If the lifters move then you may have bad or stuck lifters. If they still do not move then sounds like the camshaft lobes may be worn at those lifter locations.

One other thing, you had said in previous posts that the compression was good all around, Hmmm if the intake was not opening on those cylinders I doubt you would have good compression there.

PM me if you need any questions answered. good luck

 

great replies guys, these are helping out very much. im hoping its just those lifters..... if its the camshaft then i guess im in for a big overhaul of this thing :-/ i just cant believe that this is my luck. man oh man. and Ole Don thanks, ill PM you tomorrow if my dad needs some help with some of this stuff. i wonder if anyone else has had this problem before on here

 

If this engine was started and run with old sour gas you may have some stuck valves. AND this most offen happens with the intakes. Before pulling anything use something for a lever and try moving the valves that the pushrods have jumped off of the rockers. If they are stuck spray some spray carb cleaner on to the valve stems and try again. A lot of times you get stuck valves this way when you later crank it over you will bend pushrods and they will then jump off where they belong. MORAL if the gas in the tank stinks like hell DO NOT start the car using it.

 

i would think if the cam is worn and the engine was rebuilt with a new cam when you bought it then the damage has possibly occurred when you have been winding it over so much. engines should really be started to allow the cam to run in, to wind it over and over without oil getting onto the cam would wipe out the lobes quite easily.

as others have said pull the manifold tomorrow see how things stand and go from there, good luck!

 

the engine was never rebuilt when i bought it, the original owner said it only had like 32000 original miles on it but it was never rebuilt. and we put new oil and stuff in the engine before we ever tried cranking it over. but yea we'll see how it goes tomorrow i guess. hope for the best prepare for the worst

 

I'm with these two guys. Sticky intake valves bent the pushrods.
If your lucky, the lifters and cam are ok.

Get the untake off and have a look-see. Get some digital pics posted and maybe we can all figure this out.

Whatever you find under the intake, you must solve the mystery of why this happened in the first place, and correct the problem so it does not happen again.

 

Like Old Don said, no collapsed Lifters.
The only Y-Block I had ( '60 Truck ) had Mech Lifters.

If I remember right, the Valve Spring Pressure was low enough that you could push the Valve down ( just bearly off the seat, but you could feel it move ) by pushing down on it with the palm of your hand.
Thats an easy test to do when you have the Valve Cover and the Rockershaft off.
( should tell you at least tell you if any are stuck. )
If any Valves are stuck in the open position, that would be easy to see as well.

 

All Y blocks '54-'62 are solid lifters. If the Cam is wiped, god knows what else is going on with the motor. Better pull it out, tear it completely down and do a complete engine rebuild on it. Big money motor, but it's the only way to be sure.

 

I believe the oiling problems in Y blocks had a penchant for wiping out cam lobes, but this is years ago the last I touched one. Could be way off tho.

 

And lastly, I remember you said it had good compression, if the valves were all out of whack it wouldnt I assume. Then it would leave all the turning over as the culprit.

 

the paragraph i was dread reading, haha, damn :[

spent 500 for the motor
100 for gas to get there
375 for the transmission
another 275 in accessories for it probably

and now it resorts to rebuilding it probably. i hope it isnt badly damaged, i hope some part has just come loose and we can put those pushrods back on there and fix it easily. but with my luck i doubt it'll come that easy. looks like i gotta save up about 3 months worth of paychecks....

 

I'm pretty sure you're going to find that the lifters are what are called "mushroom lifters" and you have to pull the cam to put them in. They come in from the bottom and cannot be pulled out through the top side. Pretty much you install the lifters, then the cam, with the engine upside down on a stand.

 

Don't waste your time pulling the intake and valley cover. Look down the pushrod holes. If you can see the head of the pushrod you should be able to fish it out with a piece of wire with a hook bent at the end, or maybe a magnet. If you can't see the head don't worry, leave it where it is for now, it cant hurt anything. I am pretty sure that your cam and lifters are OK, but if you want to check, move the rocker out of the way, get another pushrod, [if you don't have one available use a long screwdriver], put it in the hole and locate the lifter cup. Use a little downward pressure and rotate the engine. If you feel it move up and down all is good. As someone else mentioned, to free up the stuck valve use some carb cleaner, Berryman is best, on the valve stem. Use a thin blade or feeler gage between the spring coils to lift the stem seal up, if there is still one there. Use the red plastic tube to get the spray right where the stem goes into the head. Gently tap on the valve stem head with a hammer, copper is better to lesson damage to head. The stuck valve will have a solid feel and sound. Once free it will bounce back and sound altogether different. Try it on a known free valve so you will know what to listen and feel for. Once you have freed them and are ready to reinstall the new pushrods, use the same method as when checking the cam to get the pushrod to the lowest position. You will now be on the backside of the cam. Back off the adjuster on the rocker until you can slide it back over the valve stem. Adjust to 19 thousands between the rocker face and valve stem head. Be warned that until you run a full tank of clean fresh gas through this engine you will likely have more stuck valves every time you come back to it.
Even with three stuck valves, two intake and one exhaust if your good/bad order is correct, the engine should still have fired and at least tried to run, so I doubt that fixing the current problem will solve your non starting dilemma.

 

I agree with the rest. A little moisture down through the intake and the valves can stick plus if the engine has sat for awhile. The push rods on the 292's were very week and bend easily. Pull the rocker shaft and lay a straight edge on the valve tips to see if the three are lower than the rest. This will show if they are stuck slightly open. This explains the compression coming out your carb on the video. The y-blocks are stronger than dirt and don't generaly tear up cams.

 

well i potentially dodged a big bullet today. my dad went over there, took the manifold off, and looked at the valley cover and saw the pushrods just leaning along the side there. they came out of the lifters he said and he just slid them back in.
so yea nothing wrong with the cam or pistons or anything. i thought i was going to have to rebuild the thing but maybe now i wont have to, thank god (because college is coming up and i cant afford to fix the motor and pay for school)


but yea is this the reason why it wasnt starting guys? because those push rods came loose? or nah it still shoulda turned over a little bit? not to sure because i never encountered a problem like that before, just courious

 

If the rods weren't in the lifters, the car would definitely not start as they valves wouldn't actuate and no fuel could reach the cylinders and no spent gases could exit. Did you make sure they weren't bent?

 

Just thought I'd chime in and let you know I'm on this forum too - mostly lurk for the tech as my ride doesn't really qualify. I see some good advise here - follow it. I agree, try the valves first before you start yanking parts, and don't jump to conclusions.

 

Well, a little slow on my post - check those valves to see if they are sticking. If there isn't enough pressure on the push rods they will fall to the side and into the hole. If the valves are stuck down no pressure to keep them in. Understand?