IFS...can they be cool on a open wheeler?

anything can be done, but ugly is ugly.


truthfully ask yourself what you want out of the pickup and you will have your answer.

if your thinking of using it just coz you got it cheap, to me that isnt really the answer.

you could always sell it or swap it with a street rodder who wants to get rid of that 'aweful' beam axle set up

 

Wild little ride isn't it?
It's a Mallock U2 "Clubmans" race car. Google it!

The front suspension is basicly two modified English Ford beam axles, cut and mounted "Split I beam" style, to the opposite frame members and actually being run upside down from Ford configuration to get the roll center lower and improve the camber curve by having the inner beam bushings very low. Swing axles will usually tuck the loaded tire in a turn but not this thing due to the length of the arms and the bushing height locations.

Arthur Mallocks cars RULED the Clubman tracks with this setup...even though it was considered "outdated" for a road course when he went with it.
Unfortunately for the competition, he wasn't notified of the fact and kicked SLA ass with it anyway! LoL
(Eventually he did go SLA and he continued to win...he just knew how to design a working suspension!)

Thats one mean little kickass British Hot Rod...outdated or not!

Metalshapes filled me in on some stuff before and the rest I found on the Net.
I love minimalist performance cars and the U2 fits the bill nicely.

I bet theres only a handful of people on this board who could make full use of that cars ability...and I KNOW I ain't one of them.

But I can dream...

 

Looks like a tube to me as well Doc.

MANY incredible cars ran the "VW style" transverse torsion/trailing arm suspension. Sure it has limitations compared to a full on SLA style but it has advantages too. I laugh at how people dig on it so much because they read somewhere about its POOR qualities...like they could actually drive ANY car at 10/10ths with ANY style suspension!
Aston Martin used it, the incredible 1930's Auto-Union Grand Prix cars...several other celebrated cars as well.
Would take a thick skin to put up with the naysayers unfortunately...

The Morgan used the "Sliding pillar" suspension from the first three wheelers right up to and including the last series before the new series they produce now!
The upper and lower "control arms" were solid chassis members and the spindle ran up and down over an extended kingpin with a load spring on top and a rebound spring on the bottom.
No Camber curve with that at all, but it also cornered flat so not much was needed anyway.

That would be the key to a twin trailing arm like a VW too...limit the lean and you would also limit the need for camber.
Sure that will only work to a point...but how often could you possibly reach that point in legal street driving?
Tex Smith used one in the XR-6 and said it was smooth and great to drive...I have no reason to doubt him.

Rules and peer pressure are just limitations...

 

Oops, didnt see your post N8...

Like Hackerbill said, Its a Mallock U2 Mk6.

Built in the mid 60's. ( when everybody had switched to building Mid Engined racecars with 4 wheel independent double A arm suspensions )
They were used in most classes from FJunior to F2, Clubmans and Brittish Hillclimbing.

I'll dig some more pics up and post them, if you want...

 

Seem to recall the overlap suspension was designed by Granville Grenfell? He held a patent for it over here - unfortunately NOT in the US, so Ford ripped him off for the twin beam setup on the Econoline. Built some pretty cool specials with this setup including a low slung flathead powered sportscar, a Formula 500 racecar and a three wheeler for a bike magazine back in the fifties.

As for pretty IFS? There's always this - it's no RPU though...

 

I had forgotten his name, but I think you are right.
A similar setup was used on the 1st series Lotus Elevens, but I doubt if Colin Chapman ever payed for using it...

 

im not fond of that setup either...sorry.

 

A three-window sedan; now that's different....
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Since I gave up hope I feel much better.

 

Miller Ford - those alloy castings ARE the suspension, not covers.
Oh - and front wheel drive as well...
Designed and built in 79 days!

 

Never heard of him! But I have now!!! THANK YOU.
Very inventive guy...heres a link to his 1/2 litre racecar.

http://www.500race.org/Marques/Granviille.htm

Man, that Miller kicks ass. Look at that beautiful 35 grille shell mounting and the hood sides! Love it!
I'm surprised people don't copy that look.
Monkey, do you have any detail pics of the suspension?

 

Wow! What a site I found by Googling for Granville Grenfell!

Check it out if your into minimal nostalgic rockets...

http://www.500race.org

 

He used to race an Austin 7 engined bike as well - with a supercharger!

There's more pics of the Miller Ford on www.milleroffy.com - unfortunately none of the suspension uncloathed. The whole story involving Tucker & Henry Ford, up to the ill fated race in 1935 (steering box too close to the exhaust manifold - all the cars had to retire when the grease boiled out) is a chapter in this book, if you can find a copy
Miller
Griffith Borgeson
ISBN 0879388145
Motorbooks International,1992

Good hunting! It's worth having the whole book.
Phil

 

IFS is only cool if you chrome plate it.....

 

Oh - nearly forgot, the Granatelli's brought the Miller Ford back to Indy 11 years later, racing it in 1946 as the Grancor special.

 

Fatman's IFS is basically a copy of the English Allard setup from the 1930's. Allard used mostly Ford parts to build sports cars. They even ended up stamping their own copy of the Deuce chassis rails as the 30's wore on (without the side swage). Anyway, they used an I beam cut in two, pivoting in the middle as Fatman now sells.
Those Watson and Kurtis roadsters had tube axles.
Grabowski's and Ivo's T's both had 4 bar front ends. Why? They're race car parts! No, Pete and Jake didn't invent them.

 

i know im going to catch a lot of hell for this... but

if its done right with a ford truck twin I beam front it wont be beutiful, but it can be made far from butt ugly

 

imagine a highboy with that suspension...

now imagine that body with an old Ford axle setup...

Now tell me which one looks the best.

That body would still be bitchin' with a beam axle. IMHO

Of course Boyd would disagree...He loves IFS and IRS. Need I say more?

Everything has it's place.

 

Yeah...I know what your sayin' but the thread is ABOUT independent useage in nostalgic cars!
Nobody is doubting the beauty of the Ford beam. NOTHING looks better than a dropped and drilled heavy 32 axle with split bones in my opinion.
We're just exploring the possibilities and checking out nostalgic conversions...not trying to change minds or anything.

Ya gotta admit...this stuff is a lot more interesting than an M2 cobble job OR a Boyd billet conversion!

I actually think the Mallock style conversion COULD be very nice on a maxed out Modified or roadster!!! AND it would corner like a...Mallock !!!

Fiddy...that looks like a freakin' slot car man! How does it handle and drive?
does it give bumpsteer with the tierods angled up like that?
You made great use of available goodies...and YES...your a gutzy mofo too! LoL

 

This is the 2nd or 3rd time this split in half axle subject has been discussed. Each time it's a geometry lesson .

 

Oh hell Bill... LOL this one aint mine. its a build of a guy over in Wisconsin someplace. i DO however plan on taking a lot of his ideas for the suspension setup for a modified i have planned WAY down the road tho

he has one of those hotrodders dot com project journals... thats where i first found his car. 100% hand built body, and i gotta give the guy credit, it aint half bad either.
here is a link to it, starting with the first "donor" vehicle teardown pics... the guy deserves a pat on the back as far as i am concerned, like you said this car took guts and a TON of work and imagination. his journal has a shitload of pics and good explanations for each step of the build

Fiddy

hotrodders dot com journal

 

The Mallock is a version of the Grenfell design.
I'm sure that all Allards were split beam, as was the Leslie Ballamy conversion. Certainly the first car was...

 

Neat picture .

I wonder what it looks like when it goes from rebound to jounce ?

Think I'll stick with an uncut axle .

 

Wow! That picture really shows the problems of a true split-beam on a road car doesn't it!?!? The narrow track of that English Trials-car, plus the extreme travel of the suspension makes it even worse.
For road use a cross-beam would seem the only way to go for this style suspension.
I'm sure the Fatman conversion is much tighter than that setup but it would still make you question the design for high speed cornering or accident avoidance...
Anyone driven one HARD?

 

OK Fiddy...your in the clear!
We'll blame it on Wisconsin!!! Hahahahaha

thanks for the link, I'm gonna go check it out now.

 

Excellent observation. And it doesn't hurt the post count either.

Frank

 

Ok, so now I have to quote sources! From Tony Thackers book 32 Ford- the Deuce, page 133 talks about the Allard suspension:

"...this strange device (an LMB split axle) produced by Leslie Ballamy was made by cutting the original beam axle in the centre and mounting it on bushes welded to the severed axle ends and brackets welded to the front crossmember. The transverse spring was retained..."

When you look closely at the photo, don't be confused by the split radius rods. the axle pivots in the middle.

In any case it is a shit setup.

 

I agree...thats what I've read about the Allard system too. One beam, split at the center.

 

So. We're all agreed then? IFS isn't cool, unless it's Granville's system - or a Miller Ford?!
And NO FWD either.
Unless it's a Miller Ford...