ifs kit or subframe

hey all , i am about to start a project its a 51 chevy i want ifs. can anyone tell me the pros and cons of say a kit from fatman and a nova 2 subframe or camaro? thanks

 

i meant 51 chevy deluxe coup

 

The kits are expensive, but all the engineering is already done for you. I have used IFS kits in two projects and it is still alot of work but nothing like trying to graft in a subframe. It's a personal choice thing. Either way you get to be out in the garage getting your hands dirty!

 

Camaro clips are for cheap bastards and hacks.

 

You can also grab a IFS from a 75-90 Jaguar with R&P steering for little $$, weld it in.

 

A bolt in kit from TCI or Chassis Engineering is the easiest, fastest, and likely most satisfacory alternative to "clipping it with a Nova/Camaro subframe. Those are often "cheap" and the results often are substandard. Now, before all you guys want to flame me by saying HOW GREAT your Nova/Camaro sub frame works......I have this to say......YOURS may be one of the exceptional few, or perhaps you just don't know the difference.

BTW, there is nothing wrong with Fatman products, I have used a few and think they are one of the best in materials on the market. But for the '49/'54 Chevs that have a bolt in front crossmember from new, removing it and bolting in a new aftermarket unit just couldn't get any easier. Unlike most other cars of the era, the Chev frame rails are flat and straight and lend themselves to this changeover.

Ray

 

I have a CE crossmember in mine, it went in real easy. Like in a weekend, including beer runs. I ordered them with the mounts too.

I'm not trying to be a prick, but you realize that your '51 chevy HAS an IFS, right? Used on the C1 corvettes too. Disk Brake kits available, and if you want to lower it you can cut the coils- but the ride will suffer.

 

For the way the majority of them are installed, I'd be pretty close to the same opinion. I have seen a few that were exceptional and worked really well, similar to hnstray's opinion. Now you say "51 Chevy"...pick up? Sedan? What is it? The other popular mod if it's a truck is the S-10 conversion, which I dislike in so many ways, but it's effective and has ZERO traditional feel or flavor. I investigated using a tri-5 (55-57 Chevy passenger car) front frame section in an AD truck. It wasn't looking too bad but I scrapped the idea when I sold the donor project car. The modern IFS "bolt in" stuff has come a long way from it's humble bracket racer beginnings. In the end it's where your budget takes you. Many an early rodder would use a complete frame and suspension for their projects. The Car Craft "Dream Truck" sat on a mid 50s Olds frame and running gear. My dear departed Dad dropped a 49 Ford pick up on an Olds 88 frame and running gear. Even if it's a car, not a truck, the same philosophy would apply but thorough and disciplined fab skills would be required.

 

Main differences are how much $$$ you want to spend, and whether you think you may want to upgrade components in the future. Junk yards stil have lots of Novas.

 

I'd say it's a fleetline or styleline delux. he says it's a coup (sic), not a truck...

 

There's one side that I don't see here- clipping the car would mean that you need to figure out , design and fabricate brackets and such for fenders, bumpers, splashpan and the rad.

With the MII crossmember route, you don't need to worry about that. (I didn't even take my fenders off when I did mine... but you would probably wanna do that for yours.

 

i agree, luckily my wife likes cheap bastards and hacks and has loved driving her 50 mercury for the past 12 years

for me personally, I liked using the front clip, motor, tranny and rearend out of a 78 camaro that just happened to be a buddies first car we used to drive to high school together.

that said if you have the money the kits are great

 

I will ask the same question I ask everyone who is attempting to replace IFS with IFS. What is wrong with the suspension that is in there?

Is there a reason you want to do this? It is a ton of work to make a 60-year-old car handle like a 35-year-old car.

 

My car definitely outperforms anything detroit had in 1953. It was less work than a clip and less cost than a kit.

 

Close to 10K post or not that is simply ignorant, naturally with all do respect!

I have seen just as many "kits" installed by rich hacks or shops that shouldn't be doing that kind of work.......................

 

i'd go with a MII.. i put one in mine last year and it was an easy bolt in. i used a chassis engineering cross member with SBC mounts already welded in.. my car is a project and i don't have a need to be in a hurry so it's just a work in progress type of vehicle...

 

chassis engineering is a very good bolt in kit. Have one in my 52 bel air. I was told the frames in these early chevys is very weak, and do not take to welding to them. They tend to crack.

 

and yet you don't say what your car has .....

 

...guess I'm a cheap hack!

...you better go with Chassis Engineering bolt in if you don't wanna be one too!

...BTW, here's a 49 Fleetline I put a 72 Nova clip under, worked out great.

 

I put a 77 camaro in my 52 hardtop,the tires rub the fender a little when turning
shape.I think its a good soild front end handles like a sports car.Had a 350/350 with a 56 chevy rear got about 18 mile to gallon.Hard to mount bumber some good ideas here on this site.The nova would be better being rear steer.I paid $25 in 1999 for the clip.Today the mustang kits are better and i,d go that way today.
I think the bolton one would be quick and get it done.

 

when i got the 50 merc it had no front or rear suspension and the running camaro cost me $200, so at the time it was a no brainer

i'd say there's a pretty big difference in a camaro clip and original 50 front end, power steering and disc brakes aren't cheap to add to original gear, parts for a 78 camaro are cheap and plentiful

 

If you look there is a thread on this subject.there are lots of points of view and the guy shows how he did it.lots of good pics.I think im going to clip one of my 55 internationals.Its a week end of work and a 200.00 sub is lots cheeper than 2500.00 for stuff you buy from a catalog.just my .02

 

If you have the ability to install a clip from another vehicle and just want to know the pros or cons I would look at what the options are for the after market independent front end setups for your 51 Chevy like track width, brake options,A-arms,shocks, air bags and coil overs.

Then I would look at what a clip is going to cost and if the front end needs to be rebuilt or parts need to be replaced that could make up your mind for you.

I think that I just talked myself into buying a new independent front suspension and I don't even have a project to put it under !

 

here's a list of front and rear ends, listing widths, weights, etc.... near the bottom for front ends used in clipping a car..
The first gen camaro is slightly narrower than the second gen (70 - 82). First gen is 60 on the rear and approx. 60 1/2 on the front, which is almost exactly the same as your 50. This measurement is mounting surface to mounting surface (outside hub). The second gen is 61 1/2 on the front and 60 1/2 on the rear, mounting surface to mounting surface. Scroll down near the bottom of the info below and you'll find some clip measurements.

Original Vehicles
Rear Suspension Width (Flange to Flange)

Year
Classic Vehicles
Width

26-39
Plymouth-Dodge car/pick up
56-58"

40-52
Plymouth-Dodge car
60-62"

26-39
Chrysler/DeSoto Car
60"

Most Early
Mopar's
56-62"

25-39
Chevy Car
56-58"

26-46
Chevy Truck
56-58"

40-48
Chevy Car
58-60"

49-54
Chevy Car
58-60"

47-54 & 55 1st Series
Chevy Truck
60-62"

Most Early
Buick,Olds, Pontiac
58-61"

28-31
Ford Car/Pickup
57 1/2"

32 & 33-34
Ford Car/Pickup
56 1/2"

35-48
Ford Car
57-60"

35-41
Ford Pickup
56-60"

49-58
Ford Car
57-58"

49-56
Mercury
57-58"

49-51
Mercury
61"

64
Falcon
58"

67
Cougar
60"

55-59
Chevy Pickup
62"





Donor Vehicles Front and Rear
Suspension Width (Flange to Flange)

Year
Classic Vehicles
Width Front
Width Rear

74-79
Ford Mustang II/Pinto & Mercury Capri/Bobcat
55 ½"
55 ½"

71-77
Ford Maverick with 8" axle
56 ½"


75-80
Ford Granada with 8" axle
57 ½"


64-66
Mustang
57"


67-71
Mustang
59"


72-73
Mustang
60"


67-69 , & 60"
Camaro
60"


64-67
Chevelle
60"


55-64
Chevy car
60"


65-67
Nova
58"


68-72
Nova
60"
60"

78 & up
Monte Carlo, Regal, etc. with 10 bolt axle
58"
58"

68-72
Chevelle with 10 bolt axle
61 ½"


89
Trans AM (Disc brake)
62"


76-80
Camaro/Firebird
61 ½"
60 ½"

68-83
Corvette
58 ½"
59 ½"

84-95
Corvette
59 ½"
60 ½"

Early 70's
"A" body (Dart/Duster) with V8&3/4 axle
58"



"E" Body (Cuda) with V8&3/4 axle
58"



Dodge Dart
59"
55 ½"


Plymouth Volare & Dodge Aspen
61"
60 ½"

71
Blazer (6 lug)
63 ¾"


75-78
Granada 9"
(43" perch to perch)
52 ¼"

75-78
Maverick 9"
(43" perch to perch)
56 ¼"

81-87
Olds Cutlass
58 ½"




FRONT SUSPENSION INFORMATION



Track Width of Popular Donor Car Clips

Manufacture
Model
Years
Track Front/Rear
Curb Weight

Chevrolet
Nova
68-74
59.8-59.6
3,770

Buick
Apollo
68-74
59.1-58.8
3760

Pontiac
GTO
68-74
59.9-59.6
3880

Chevrolet
Corvette
68-83
58.7-59.5
3655



84-95
59.6-60.4
3890

Chevrolet
Camaro (Z28)
76-80
61.3-60.5
3820

Pontiac
Firebird (TA)
76-80
61.3-60.5
3900

Ford
Mustang II
74-79
55.6-55.8
3305


Pinto
74-79
55.6-55.8
3305

Mercury
Capri
74-79
55.6-55.8
3305


Bobcat
74-79
55.6-55.8
3305

Chevrolet
Monte Carlo
78-86
58.5-58.8
3235

Buick
Century
78-86
59.0-58.8
3700

Pontiac
Grand Prix
78-86
58.9-59.0
3735

Plymouth
Volare
75-79
61.0-60.5
3395

Dodge
Aspen
75-79
61.0-60.5
3395

Dodge
Dart
76
59.2-55.6
3600

 

The Chevys in the early 50s had a "top-hat" frame that was basically sheetmetal welded to a stouter steel base...not a good candidate for a clip job but with their straight-rail frames, they're great for a mustang II front. Several people have already named Chassis Engineeering and a few other companies that make a good Mustang II crossmember.
It's true, the original suspension can be rebuilt and re-used ok...kits are available for disc brakes for the old chevy spindles.
Last one I built I used the original suspension, '54 steering and brakes with cut coils and a 1.25" stabilizer bar from a Trans-am. Next time I'll go with an aftermarket Mustang II based setup with rack& pinion steering/disc brakes etc.

 

ifs kits make for a cleaner build. ive seen clipped cars. and they look just like what it is. another frame hacked into a different frame.

 

I recently "bolted" a CE kit on my 51. Went on with minimal problems. Hardest part is removing the stock rivets. Seems alot easier than makin all new mounts for everything up front! I'll be doin the same to the rear if I ever get it back from the body shop! Good luck.

 

Im looking to put a 2nd gen stub on a 53 chevy truck any ideas.

 

Do a search on here the bolt in IFS from CE is the easyest to do. Its not cheap but if falls right in to place with no BS!...

 

I have been looking here for a long time and for several different cars.. AND I CAN NOT BELIEVE ALL THE NEGATIVE SHIT, THAT COMES OUT OF THE MOUTH OF 49RATFINK.....CHILL BUDDY.!! you never say anything nice..??...wtf ??