Technical Ignition boxes - when is it needed?

Hey Guys,

For context: I've been running Holley's Sniper EFI - forgive me my sins, I now see the error of my ways - on my '65 ranchero since I installed the rebuilt/hopped-up original 289. It has been okay for me, but I'm getting sick of fixing it: an O2 sensor here, a pressure regulator there, two fuel pumps... I'm going to switch back to a carb [Holley 4150]. I put the EFI on there to improve the reliability and fuel economy and got neither...oh well. The engine itself is healthy - it runs cool, has great oil pressure, spark plugs look healthy, so I know the engine is solid. Car is a 'peppy' cruiser, not a race car, by the way.

Anyway, here's my question for you guys:

I can't reuse the 'Hyperspark' distributor and ignition system from the Sniper. I'm planning on picking up an MSD 'ready to run' distributor and blaster ignition coil, but I'm not sure if I need an ignition controller. So, my question for you guys is: do I need to add a 6AL ignition box or something similar for my application? I've seen mixed reviews on whether or not they're worth it. I'm not running a blower or crazy compression/cam or gnarly RPM's which is usually what I see listed as being the defining elements of needing one of these units. I can afford to buy it, but if it's not going to do me any good or be more trouble than it's worth, I'll just save the money. Highlights of engine specs below.


Engine:

• 289 bored .03" over, standard stroke
• 10.2:1 Static compression
• Howard's hydraulic flat tappet cam & lifters [.501/.501 lift, 221/231 @ .05" duration, 106 LSA] - max RPM = 6200
• AFR165 heads with Edelbrock performer RPM intake
• Running 93 octane, T10 4-speed, 3.25 gears

Thanks in advance for any input you guys may have! And because everyone likes pictures, I've attached one just to show off the ole Wrenchero...
-Chris

 

hmmm....I ran an old Mallory dual point distributor, no box, stock coil, stock plug wires and stock AC plugs on the blown 427 in Plan II, it ran a best of 9.89 @ 134 and drove tens of thousands of miles.

so put me in the camp of "you really don't need all that stuff"

 

For the good old days when your street hemi would pop corn over 4000 rpm if your plugs were over 2 weeks old.

 

You can grab a stock points distributor and coil at the parts store for cheap enough.or swap meet for cheaper,and toss in a pertronics if you need

 

I’m with at @squirrel , not sure why people have such an aversion to points systems. They’re cheap, work well in must applications and are very simple. You can keep a spare cap, rotor, condenser and points in small box and change on road side in short amount of time. Only need a screwdriver or two, feeler gauges and a hex key if it’s a GM.
I’ve had no issues running 15 k miles before the points needed attention.
Dan

 

Myself I use boxes some times not
6-8 MSD ,
Mags also
I ran / run Mallory Unlight, with No box with coil on tail shaft of Trains with engines in 700 hp rang ,
I would Run Single and dual Points, coil , caps , rotor with NOS parts made before late 90s,
Aftermarket performance and OEM ,
Quality has went down on many Performance and OEM parts china made

 

You could go with a Pertronix conversion with an updated coil. Should deliver all the spark the 289 would need.

Nice Ranchero you got there!

 

I've run an MSD 6AL on everything for the last couple decades. I just like the way my engines run, and how much longer my spark plugs go between needing to be changed. I've run the 6AL with points, Pertronix distributor, and even with my Mallory Unilite in my BBC. The MSD box is really great for anyone with a Unilite as it keeps voltage steady and no module failures with a 6AL ahead of a Unilite.
Is it always "needed"? I'd say no usually, although a Unilite needs some sort of protection, so why not add a 6AL to protect it, and also get a better spark too? I put one on my '39 Chev's 355 SBC roller moto because I was going to use an Accel distributor. Then after getting the Accel electronic conversion in my points distributor and trying to wire it in I couldn't find a wiring instructions in my 6AL paperwork. Called MSD and was told the Accel kit is the only thing MSD didn't work with. So pulled the distributor out, and slapped in a spare points distributor and wired it up. It works great, so we'll see how many miles and years I'll get out of the MSD and points. Been 4 years so far, and lots of miles each year.

 

As long as there's no electrical connections between the EFI and the distributor, I'd say an OEM style electronic or points distributor should work fine. Not familiar with Holley's Sniper system, but do they specify any special requirements for your fuel or ignition systems?

 

I'm all in on the ready to run or a Fast easy run no box just a coil. You get electronic ignition and an easy to adjust timing curve.

 

You don’t need an ignition box with an MSD Ready to Run, that’s why they’re called ready to run.

Like others I like the old stuff, it’s easy to fix by the side of the road.

 

The only box I’d probably run is a ford duraspark with an HEI module inside.
Other than that, points

 

Another fan of the MSD box. Better starting and idle quality and even a slight bump in fuel economy. I use the OEM Ford Duraspark distributor for the trigger. Lose the funky 'adaptor' and big cap and switch to the '57-73 points type cap, it looks totally traditional, plus you can get caps and rotors anywhere as well as run OEM coils. Cheaper too.

 

I've run a FiTech for about 70,000 miles so far. I've run a factory distributor with Pertronix in it for about 30,000 miles more than that. I've replaced the coil (because I'm dumb and left the key on overnight) but other than that it's been trouble free. We found out the hard way when the distributor started to have top bushing issues that points and FiTech didn't like each other. Sourced another distributor body and swapped the Pertronix in and it fixed the problem.

 

I have 4 cars currently with plug&play MSD distributors, nothing against points but these work great and have not failed me (knock on wood). My blown flathead has a BTM-6 box that my engine builder required me to install with the compression ratio and boost we put in an archaic engine to avoid potential detonation issues. I forget it is there as it is hidden under the dash, and the box has a rev limiter chip which is a nice thing to have with only 3 main bearings.

Your car, your call. Make sure it isn't knock off crap regardless. There are spotting guides on-line. Or just buy form Holley direct.

 

I only speak carbs and points. Sorry, that's all I got.

 

Thanks for the responses fellas. You gave me some other options to consider.

For the record: I ditched the EFI in favor of a Holley 4150 with vacuum secondaries. Cobbling together the rest of the pieces to make it work.

Guess I failed to mention that the MSD unit I was looking at will supposedly work with or without the box. Really just wanted to see if ya'll thought there'd be anything/much to be gained in a street-driven application.

I was talking to my pops about this (he's been a mechanic since 1972 or so) and when I asked about running a points style system, he looked at me like I had lobsters growing out of my ears. His words: "I thought you said you wanted something you didn't have to f*** around with? Most of the old stuff is cool but that's one thing I'd leave in the past." Probably sounds like blasphemy to some of you, but he made a pretty compelling argument that I'm inclined to agree with. And since it's OUR car not MY car, I'd rather not piss him off...

Thanks,
Chris

 

do you plan to put 10k miles a year on it? or just putt around with it every now and then?

Because if you are using it to drive to work in lousy weather and don't want to have to mess with it so you can get to work on time, I sure understand where he's coming from. But reality is we don't build these cars for that use, and you end up not having to deal with stuff the way he remembers 50 years ago.

 

I was putting 10-15k miles a year on my points ignition beaters

 

Totally valid point. Between May and September (when the roads aren't snowy/salty), I run it around on the weekends and do use it to drive to work 2-3 days a week just cause I enjoy driving it. So, it's maybe 6,000 miles a year. So, with that kinda mileage - maybe cleaning/adjusting the points once or twice a year? I could live with. Would I sooner get tired of my old man complaining about it? Almost certainly, hah.

 

or every other year....


I used to put electronic ignition in every thing in the 80s-90s, then I got over it, they all get points now.

 

I installed a MSD 6AL on my OT Chevelle about 15 years ago. Was really impressed with it so I bought the plug and play distributor and a 6AL box for my 50 coupe when I built it.
Bandit Billy is right at making sure you buy the real stuff from Holley. There are Chinese knock offs out there that look like the real thing but are total junk.

 

If I have this right your question was if I use the msd ready to run distributor do I also need to run a control box. In my experience the answer is no.

I have a 408 stoked Windsor motor with the ready to run distributor. The engine builder said that the engine would run without a seperate ignition control box but if I added one then I should get slightly better mpg so I had him add the 6al box and the engine tuned with both fitted on the dyno.

I can tell you that I have run the ready to run distributor with and without the 6al box and there was no noticeable difference that I could feel or measure.

If I was doing this again (and I did) I would not waste the money on the 6al box if I was using the ready to run distributor.

One or the other works just fine for everyday driving.

 

My Plymouth has a 6al triggered by a stock points distributer. Added the box because I wanted the rev limiter. So far the points have worked fine up to 6500 rpm and will be easy to fix on the side of the road if there's a problem.

 

one bonus of using a box with points is that you dont need a condenser, and they can be a bit finnicky to find a good one these days. Although I've had decent luck the past few years.

 

BITD. Echlin from NAPA were the go to , top of the line , never fail , overwhelmingly preferred points & condenser , Is this still the case ?

 

If Blue streak is still available, those are top of the line. Napa’s were Blue Streak at least a few years ago.

 

I ran my MSD off a parts store points distributor for a few years, before removing the power train and selling the car. No issues at all. It will go into the new car this year with the same setup.

-rick

 

I have a 351W with a ready to run and no box for the last 15 years and it has never given me a problem. Just an 8202 MSD coil.