I'm GOING to take some HEAT for this.... BILLETPROOF???

JOHNNY ROTTEN was RIGHT...

When he SAID what he SAID at the WINTERLAND in SAN FRANCISCO....
Anyone REMEMBER that?????


IT
Looks like BILLETPROOF has become a BUSINESSMANS CIRCUS..
And it seems to have SIDE STEPPED away FROM its original MEANING.....
It's contradicting.....

With that said and with us
Having attended since NUMBER 2, (we broke down on the way to number one).......I feel that I have to say this......

It's SAD to see OUR LITTLE BABY grow UP...
But even SADDER to see it's ONCE STAUNCH MORALE for the LOW BUCK builder go down the TUBES like a CHEAP PAWN.....

it's sacredness is now tainted.
regardless of the happiness I felt when I saw some cars and some friends......

It seems that.
Our goal with supporting this show was the exact opposite of what the finish line has become!!!

I guess at 25 bucks a car,
Moral goes down the toilet like a crackhead jonesing for a toke...

BILLETPROOF,,
is OFFICIALLY A PARADOX of what it once was....
It Placates itself with Self promoting personal TREASON.......
SODOMIZED and left bleeding by
it's OWN GIMMICKS...

Nor-cal's VERSION of BLESSING of the CARS, without the CRAMPS playing..???

GOOD LUCK to you
and whatever else you are trying to drum up and conquer.....

I had a wonderful time, but I left with a weird feeling..
SOMETHING AIN"T RIGHT......

You can't MAKE COMPROMISES, or EXCEPTIONS with your AIM.....
Or you wind up shooting crooked,,,

Have fun

 

"ever get the feeling that you've been cheated?"

 

What, not "Punk Rock" enough?

 

Yeah, it happens dude. That event you went to from day one, you live for it, you build it up in your mind...................one day it will not live up to your expectations or your memories of its past.

 

1) Underground band with good songs hits the small clubs
2) People hear band and dig it. College radio happens.
3) Band plays same songs, but starts making money and gets more exposure, no longer have to sleep in van
4) Original fans declare band a sellout

The same or different?

 

[ QUOTE ]
1) Underground band with good songs hits the small clubs
2) People hear band and dig it. College radio happens.
3) Band plays same songs, but starts making money and gets more exposure, no longer have to sleep in van
4) Original fans declare band a sellout

The same or different?

[/ QUOTE ]

Alot different, and I never said SELLING out...
reread what I wrote..

 

What would you have done differently?

 

I have found when certin shows loose there innocence and charm for the reasonse you so eloquently express you just start over.

 

I had a great time but Germ is right. The show is huge now and very over welming. The music was fine but I would apt for more varity more like La La polooza side stage acts. I saw you leave in a daze Germ? I had much more fun than any Greedy Guys show. But there were also people and elements that were not there that should have been? But as stated change is going to happen thats the secret to life!!!

 

Hey Germ....Get with c9 and av8 and right a damn book, many your deep sometimes. I would buy one.

 

we have a similar thing happening to my favorite show out east....the more people that jump on the wagon, the easier it crashes....it has to be hard to run an event and keep everything sane for a long time

 

I had a good time... but Germ is right. BilletProof is too big and it's gotten away from the original meaning.

How long before we have an Anti-BilletProof?

But... in all fairness, people should talk to Kirk and express their concerns to him? He put his heart and soul into this and I think he needs a chance to listen to the concerns and address them before we start bashing the show. But yeah... Germ's right.

Kudos to Kirk for a well planned show. I'm still going next year and maybe it will be 'smaller'?

Travis

 

I liked the 2 bowling alley venues, Albany and Hayward , but you can't go back. Everything changes , in fact if if did not grow it would probably die. Let's think about the day.
Great people -Yes
Great selection of cars- Yes
Great Location- Yes
Great Music- ***** (five Stars)Yes

I have been to every one except #1 and I had a great time again. Is it as intimate? No... Do I feel like I am part of a special sub culture happening? Not so much any more. But at the end of the day I was able to spend time with people I care about, saw some cool rides, heard some good music, and got my 40 out of the garage. I would say that I had a successful day.
Thanks to all that put it together.
Chuck

 

[ QUOTE ]
we have a similar thing happening to my favorite show out east....the more people that jump on the wagon, the easier it crashes....it has to be hard to run an event and keep everything sane for a long time

[/ QUOTE ]

Havent been, dont know, but I'll attest to Delaware George's statement. The bigger it gets, the harder it is/will be to keep it what it was. Even with the Heavy Rebel (and we are only at about 1300 people thus far in 2003), it grows harder and harder to keep it what it was. However, 70 percent of that is the people that come, the exposure the shows get from the internet and, in the case of Billetproof, the mags that cover it. At that point all the promoters can do is stand back and try to keep the feel the same. We got e-mails and comments this year about people having attitude that wasnt there the past 2 years....but what can we do except keep it as fun as possible. We still dont allow Billet, or Muscle cars, or trialer queens, but the attitude still seems to creep in. And it looses part of its "personal touch" that makes it different.

 

The more things change,the more they will never be the same.Unfortunately,some good ideas become a victim of their own success.I'm just sorry I missed it.

 

We used to put on a local show for about 5 years and you would be amazed at how much people come to expect. We used to give out T shirts, free food for everyone in the car that registers, a free Garage Art poster, and people would complain about a 10 dollar entry.

Most guys have no idea what it takes to put on a show. The bigger it gets, the more people get involved, the more ideas come into the mix.

So we just quit having it. They can have their own show.

 

I pitched this same question in CKD#8. How long will it be before they eat themselves?

Here's some food for thought though.....

It was a success, and is successful. The baby has grown up, but has grown to be what it is supposed to be.
Do you guys think, at the first Billet Proof of a handfull of misfit friends trying to have a good time, at an event where they were not shunned for having a certain style of car, a style that was on the fringe of automobiles, do you think they could even imagine it would blossom into something this big?

I think the "magic" of being small with an attitude has been lost in the shuffle, but they have suceeded in creating a large show, that still feels low key. The attitude isn't so much the tone, because the point has been made, is understood, and goes without saying. It may not be as "fun", but it is the end product of the preparation of other shows. There were no mega buck, semi-trailer vendors, there were no crafts section, just the usual small assortment guys chucking their wares. It may be a business man's circus, but that's how a show like this has to stay afloat. They can't hand choose 30 cars, stick them in a parking lot and limit spectators....what fun would that be? The time has come for what they were unconsciously trying to prove to be proven. People want to have fun, and be a part of something geared more towards home built cars, built in the old school fashion.
You wanna be a hardcore outcast now, I guess you gotta fix up a chevette and hang with the "nerd car"
crowd. They are the fringe. They are the punk. They have the romance, and the struggle. They haven't been exploited or blossomed into their full potential yet....like this "scene" was a few years back.


The cars were great to look at. There were a few hasty converts, but for the most part, everyone seemed to have a clue. And not a fluffy billet buggy in sight. The event has grown to where it is just known that the guys they were against in the beginning, with the pastel colored, trailer fluffers, do not rule the roost. If these guys did show up, it was in their personal vehicles. Their kind of cars are not welcome, not what the show is about.....and it is now a large event that they might even want to be a part of. It has come 180 degrees. It may be a paradox of the original meaning, but I think it has just matured. I saw plenty of homebuilt, low budget cars, and saw some of the previous "low buck" cars have evolved and had refining. They are growing also as the money and time allow. That's how hot rods work. They are in progress, with a goal in mind, and sometimes they get there.

It would be much easier to say "keep it like it was" than it would be to do. Like we've discussed in the past, how can you say "Let me in, and then shut the door", and keep it "hard core". You can't.

Compared to last year, the venue was cool, large, and less dirty. I admit the dirt was half the fun of lasy year, but we killed it for ourselves and some folks ruined it. This left the guys searching for a new venue, and with that comes the financial obligations asscociated with that. Insurance and what not. I did not mind paying $5 to get in. I'm not sure how much it was to show a car, but if it was $25...that seems a tad steep. Still, for the size, and quality of the show, the gate fee was nominal.

If a group of people can do something they like, and put enough heart and soul into it to do it repeatedly, I hope they become successful.
As an analogy, It would be like saying that Cole's earlier cars, cars like the blue Chevy, and the "dirt dauber" Triumph, were cool only while he was younger and a little poorer, and now that he's a bigshot rockstar, his car's quality and soul suffer. Quite the contrary, now he has the resources to really do his best. I think Billetproof has the same situatution. Sure, it's not JimA's posuerproof, or a few hard core guys having a party, but, they have helped culture something, and as likeminded people finish their cars up, it will only grow. I was happy to see so many like minded folks in one place, having a good time, and it was a good time. Real relaxed, large enough to where I didn't get bored, I didn't hear any complaints, everything was priced like it was a small event, and the cars were spread all around the venue. You couldn't do a panoramic look around and see everything, you had to walk. So if you were standing somewhere, and looked around, it still had a small show feel.


Again, I wonder aloud where the show will go, and how big it will get, when it will reach critical mass, and how distorted it will become over time, but I also had a great time, got to see some really cool cars for the first time, got to see old friends I don't get to visit with often enough, and overall, I think it was successful. Large, yes, but still somehow balancing out to be successful in upholding the original intentions.

 

Hey Germ and nay sayers. I just this minute got home and this is the first thing I see. I am very into expressing one's opinion and I have to agree with some of what you have said. It is not the Albany Bowl show anymore. It has been a new show every year. The growth has been a concern for a couple of years now. But you can't put the genie back in the bottle. There has been a percentage of "non Billetproof" cars there since YEAR ONE. There will always be a percentage of them. This complaining and grand theorizing has been around since the second or third year. Billetproof will continue and will continue to be the best show I can put together. It can never be 24 cars in a bowling alley lot again. But, name one other show where you can see as many of the "right" cars in one place. There isn't one. If you are so jaded that you can't see through the small percentage of lame cars to vast majority of great ones then that's your problem. This whole "punk rock" high horse is such bullshit. I literally put HUNDREDS of hours into this show before hand and tons of people help the day of the show. So, a GIANT thanks to all of them, the paticipants and spectators. It's funny how the complainers are always the first and loudest to speak. They just want their little piece of attention. We made a TON of people happy yesterday and many of those drove for hours or days to get there. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!

 

Damn HEMI, well said and thank you.

 

I've been reading this stuff and had to make a comment:

I was talking to a few old billet guys who said they had heard about the show and finally wanted to come out to bash it for themselves. They'd been bashing The Movement and all its Followers for as many years as we've been bashing them.

So they finally got off their lawnchairs and out from behind their color-matched Coleman stoves, pull up their white socks, tightened down the velcro on their Stride Rights, put on their best Panama Jack hats (the one with the flamed hat bands), donned "The Colors" (multi-colored abominations of gassers, street rods and customs screened from armpit to armpit across a XXL t-shirt) and laughed their way through the gates on Saturday and tried to clear the cobwebs to remember their best "cuts" on cars they don't approve of.

These guys fuckin' LOVED every minute of Billetproof '03. They couldn't believe their squinty little eyes when they saw the creativity, ingenuity and STYLE of the show. They also couldn't believe how "organized" we were. Their original opinion changed dramatically and they found some religion.

All this is not to say that we're turning into them--we never will. That's a whole different scene and approach. What this DOES say is that we're all getting a little older and more organized. We're a true movement that will always stay true to the same ideals that created this board.

BELIEVE it, Jack. Progress is good. Stagnation is not. If you can't handle a show like Billetproof getting bigger and better, than you're only insecure about your own talents and wanting to keep this scene all to yourself is gonna do nothing but get you left behind--sittin' in your garage fuming about it and trying to get your buds to agree with you.

 

Two words.........JALOPY SHOWDOWN!

http://www.throttledevil.com/jalopy001.htm

 

I had a good time kirk,
Thank you!
P.S. Nice bicycle!

 

where's your show? put up or shut up.

 

If all of those who think the show has gotten to big stayed at home it would have been smaller right? But since you couldn't stay away why not just enjoy it for what it is. I guess Kirk could limit it to 24 cars only but that would suck! Which 24 would you pick to come in. I know you couldn't just pick 24, so unless people stop building cool cars trucks and bikes I think we have a big fucking cool show once a year called Billetproof
thats my dos pesos
Tiny

 

Personally, I'd go to Billetproof and Germ's show. Whaddaya think?

 

i don't understand what you're all complaining about? i got in for free, got free donuts, got all kinds of cool schwag free, got to go to the races for free and got half off my suite (sweeeeeet) at the ramada. i got to watch some guys hack up cars in the shade, saw a lot of friends and got to kick them all out at 4:30. what more could you ask for? stevo

 

I had a great time yesterday.
The wife had a great time... and all the people I talked to were having a great time.

I think the problem is that people get caught up in theorizing about the whole movement... shit, it's about the cars man... judt focus on the cars, and the people who build them... and you'll know you found your mecca.

But for those of us who have been there since the early years or have known Kirk or Jay personally for more than a few years know that their views on what the show is about have changed... if you "choose sides", you end up alianating yourself from the true meaning of the early events AND the newer, bigger event... that is... it's about the hot rods and customs...

FWIW, this scenario was played out with the Blessing of the CArs show down south and the Fuck the Blessing show that was born out of it... there was another show yesterday.... a small gathering of friends, meeting to chat about cars and have fun on a smaller scale... next year it may be a bit bigger... and then the year after that it'll be bigger than that... and then bigger, and bigger, and bigger...
but you can only hang on to that intimate setting for so long.... then, in order to keep it on the small... you'd have to shut it down and start all over... sounds fun.

More about Billetproof... I would have to say this year was a HUGE success for Kirk... he's on his way to making a living promoting shows... but with the comercialization of it all, and the success, and the money, will come ridicule. There will also be people that will spit in your face (verbally), stab your back, call the event "GreedyProof"... but that is the price you have to pay for success... seems kind of harsh... but there are always people who want to see you fall... it's in their nature. Look at Gary Meadors... the guy still has to stand in line (this is the truth, I've seen it) at his events to get a cold soda and a burger... yet there are people who will still bad mouth him about his events and criticize how he charges $10 for a burger and a coke... I also have to say that germ isn't the type of guy that wants to see you fail... he has insight into the beginning, things have changed and now that he voices his opinion, he gets blasted? I can't say that a bit of what he said was bull shit. The event is a money maker now... big deal. If you (Kirk) try to make excuses about it, people will talk behind your back and say bad things about ya'... if you have no bones about it and say "I'm trying to make a living doing something I love"... I think people will be able to respect that... I'd love to make a living doing something I truly love... and people are fools if they don't... so, don't make excuses, just shoot straight, and enjoy the ride.
Sam.

 

[ QUOTE ]
It's SAD to see OUR LITTLE BABY grow UP...

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey germ, did I miss something here? From what I can tell, all you've ever done is attend the event, and yet you try to claim some kind of ownership? There's your problem. Until you've busted your ass helping organize it, there ain't none of it that's "yours". Don't like the way the show is going? It's simple...don't fucking go. End of story.

As for Kirk's motivations, I'll say this much. A couple of weeks ago a friend of mine contacted Kirk about some advice...she's trying to put together a show in the St. Louis area for next summer sometime. Despite the fact that he was eyeballs deep in getting Billetproff set up, he immediately and VERY enthusiastically responded to her. Did he ask for compensation of any sort? Nope. Did he tell her he'd only help if it became a Billetproof-East kind of show, and he got something from it? Nope. He just offered to help her however he could, because he thought the idea of someone wanting to put together a show was cool. That says all I need to know about Kirk and his reasons for doing this. I guess some folks just have to make a bad guy out of anyone that achieves something.

 

Justification will never truely deplete the REAL reasoning behind your madness....

 

Thanks for the support. Sam it was awesome to see the digger in person. It's a full on pro job. Way to go.

As for blasting opinions, I don't. But I too have opinions. My opinion is that the whole idea of something few used to enjoy becoming something many enjoy is lame because of it's success is completely untrue. Whether you (not you Sam) want to call that selling out, not being true to an original vision that wasn't your doing in the first place or not being "punk rock" any more that's fine. Do your own thing like jay and I decided to do seven years ago. It was a response to the way we were treated at the big shows of the time. We wanted respect for what we built. Now we and thousands of others have that respect.

The thing is, my vision from the second year on was to become a successful show catering to as many as would have us. Showcasing imagination and the do-it yourself ethic. This vision still holds true. So what I call bullshit is anyone trying to say that we have lost sight of our vision. You obviosly have no idea what the real goal has always been. I have always said that there is no reason there can't be 1000 cool cars in one place at one time. That many easily exist within reach of the show. The people who show up who we might call the "wrong" ones are embarassingly impressed with the skill of those of us who do our own thing. IF we can inspire them to go home and build their own shit, right fucking on.

So don't tell me what my vision or the vision of the show is. If yours is different, great. If you want to know mine, ask.

BTW Hemi, pre-reg was $20 and at the door it was $25. It's insentive to get people to register early so we have at least a slight idea of what to expect. That's only a $5 increase over last year. As for $5 to walk in....we can talk about the cost of putting on the show all day. Again Hemi, thanks for being able to see the show as a whole pretty clearly.