Is a flux cored welder any good?

You may want to read the replies with who you're agreeing with, and read some of the above, because your reply couldn't be more wrong.

(Something tells me judging by a few of the replies that I'm not the only professional welder and fabricator here.)

 

And still the uninformed continue to talk through their asses.
As stated earlier, flux core is used extensively in industry and construction. I have used it to weld 24 inch "I" beams. To say that it does not penetrate or it's OK for sheet metal but not where strength is required is utter nonsense. The fact is, if you are saying these things then one of two thing has happened. You've listened to Uncle Booger telling his tales at the local hangout with a 12 pack under his belt and he's FOS as usual or you've tried it and failed. Failure is caused by several factors. Inexperience, poor or improperly adjusted equipment or incorrect polarity. There are people on this board that can weld circles around me, I'm sure. I do have 3 L.A City certifications so I speak with a little bit of authority. Each process has it's good and bad points. MIG and flux core are OK for sheet metal, but the welds are a bit "hard" and difficult to work down to a nice finish. TIG or oxy/acetyline are better choices but are much more difficult to learn. Proficiancy with a wire feeder is a quick leaning curve and is the reason it has become so popular. The old guys, like Hines, would probably use a wire feeder as a stool while they are gas welding sheet metal

 

I bought a Craftsman Mig/Flux welder to use as flux until I switched over to Mig, that had to be about 8 or 9 years ago. Not that I love Flux, but for teh space I have and welding outside alot (driveway style) its just more convienent to stay flux. That said I cant WAIT to move up to a 220 Mig machine.

 

I've done gas and stick welding too. Not a pro by any means though. Flux core for me anyway has never had trouble with penetration, even a little 110V unit. I have even burned through, so its plenty hot. I do most of my welding outside, so the point of sticking flux is really nice. I also use anti-spatter spray. Welding body mounts to a frame, or repairing a bush hog deck its hard to beat. I could really turn it loose and the strength was really good. No pockets at all. It seemed like the harder you pushed it the better it welded.

On liners, I mentioned earlier, I have had mig wire hang up after running flux core most of the time. What am I doing wrong? It would feed the flux core, but the straight wire would catch and ball up. BTW, I don't weld anymore because of my vision, but I would like to pass this on to my son. I think flux core is stronger, he's big on mig and gas and I haven't liked what I have seen on structural repairs. He was mad at mefor making him redo a piece on my frame with flux core because it just didn't get through and showed that the flux gas was blowing away and contaminating the weld.

 

Oh yeah, something else. I have found that you want to ground as close as you can on what you are welding with flux core. It seems like it lays it down better. Just my observation. I might be wrong, but my little 110V is a monster as long as you keep the ground close.

 

Clean, clean and clean agin before welding, set the heat on some scrap of the same thickness prior to starting. Hardwire is fine for single pass welds if the weld is not under stress. Multi pass welds with hard wire are best left to the pro. Multi pass welds with flux core need to be cleaned between passes. If you can't do strat and stops with either method without telling where you strarted get some schooling. 40yrs welding / 30 years as a CWI.

 

Multiple pass with hardwire also requires cleaning with the grinder between passes. Carl Hagan

 

Astro of Italy makes a heck of a lot of the 110 welders out there they'll put anybodys name on them.I have a Mac Tools 110 welder that's made by them, Daytona Mig can get you anything you need for most of them.I have made my living as a weldor since 72 and I find that lots of machines get a bad rap because of people who don't have the patients to learn the machine itself they expect that 110 cheapy to weld exactly like their 220 Lincoln or Miller (pic your favorite brand) Buy the best machine you can afford and learn to use it going with a gas capability is smart it makes the machine much more versatile since you now have the option of going gas or flux core and every welding supply house I have dealt with have said that Flux core WITH a gas coverage will give you the best penetration

 

When? Why? Where did you get that from?

Maybe this is the crisis we're not thinking about yet Co-lin Powell mentioned, the recall that sunk Detroit

 

Silica. I run a quick pass over it with a 4.5" angle grinder and stainless wire wheel before i lay more passes over anything at all.

 

That's called Dual Shield. It's really hot, smokes like a son of a bitch, and smells like ass.... but yes, it's definitely has some dig.

 

I use a Hobart and switch back and forth between flux core and gas. As folks have said, it's tough to get a beautiful weld with flux core. However, I have gotten some pretty descent lookin ones. I like the flux core for quick stuff that's just gonna get ground down or hidden anyway. Once you've gotten proficient with the flux core, hook up the gas and amaze yourself with your new ability to lay down beautiful beads that look like quarters laid side by side with the occassional rabbit turd thrown in for good measure.

So my suggestion would be to buy a machine that is gas compatible. If your trying to save a little cash, dont buy the cylinder or a cart. You can always buy those later.

I love my old Hobart (from back in the made in USA days).

 

I wasn't going to get into this thread, but, I too, was a certified welder ( including structural iron for nuclear power plants ), for more years than I want to think about. I've used flux-core welders on muliple pass welds on 4" thick plate and 36" I-beams.

I really never liked the fact that any "fabricator" can plunk down his homey de pot credit card and stick together some crap that could kill him or other unsuspecting people anywhere near where his junk falls apart. Or worse yet, sell to someone who doesn't have a clue.

There is a reason some states require inspections on homebuilt hot rods. And, you CAN be sued if someone is injured or killed because of modifications to a chassis.
"It's all fun and games 'til someone looses an eye".

ENUF

 

I agree, especially if that is where your budget has you right now. Don't know where you are going to plug this in, but earlier advice above on a higher amp breaker is well-founded. I have a couple welders, but my little 110 Lincoln MIG that I use for sheet wouldn't perform to its capacity on a 15 amp service line, even though it wasn't popping fuses, but when I re-wired a new outlet with a 25 amp capacity, I was happy.

I think maybe a word about learning curve: flux cored wire will require more time on your part to get to the point where you are happy with the results. Nobody but you can really teach yourself to weld, its like learning to ride a bike, practice, practice, practice some more, and then it becomes second nature the more you do it.

Personally, I agree with the advice to stay away from a welder you can't upgrade later to gas.

 

If you're talking about MIG I'd like to know where you get this from, silicon in the wire is supposed to promote fluidity in the puddle, it's applied to the material in some stainless welding.

 

MIG produces silica puddles as excess on top of the weld.

Should it cause inclusion? Nope, it shoudn't. Is it a good habit to get into to make sure you are running passes on clean parent material anyhow? Yes, it is. Thus, I run a grinder over it with a wire wheel. In theory, you want to remove anything at all on the weld/parent metal before welding. I remove rust, scale, oils, silica, etc. prior to, even if I'm doing dual shield, and that should be able to burn through most of that shit.

It's just another step towards professional and thorough attention to detail. Plus, it makes the arc more stable anyhow....

 

Lincoln has this to say on silicon islands:, I don't think cleaning between passes hurts anything, and in a structural weld (aren't most multiple pass welds structural?) why take chances?

ER70S-3 is typically used on clean, oil-free and rust-free base material. It is also the best choice for avoiding silicon islands, which can sometimes form on the top of the weld, giving it a “glassy” look. Paint applied over a silicon island may later flake off. In addition, with multiple pass welding, a silicon island may be detected on an x-ray as a slag inclusion. Such defects may require costly rework.

 

Exactly.

With proper torch angle and heat settings it should float any silica to the top of a multipass weld just like it did in the root pass, but like you said, why take chances?

It takes more to ponder or repair an issue than it does to grab that grinder and just run it over the root and cover passes as you go.

 

Nobody has asked yet if your buzz box is AC/DC? If it is you can buy a tank, TIG torch and have a scratch start Tig! I am currenlty looking for a power supply (acdc buzzbox) to do just this.

 

Silica deposits are rare to me and obvious on what should be a clean bead, grinding as a matter of course sounds quite unnecessary.
I'm wondering what you use multi pass MIG for on a car if not a fake forging

Have you tried one? I had to try a few different welders before I ended up with an AC one running through another's inverter that worked OK ...but you contaminate the tungsten with every start and sharpening them soon becomes a PITA. Maybe someone has had better luck but I wouldn't expect any machine to work let alone well.

 

Had a pal with one and it worked well.

 

You can get as many opinions about welders as you can tractor grills!

 

You must be running magical welding wire then. Please tell me where you buy it, cause I'd LOVE to not have silica, considering that all MIG wire produces silica in the weld. Look closer, you'll see it. Glassy looking substance at the roots, sometimes deposited that looks like a small dried puddle of root beer.

As for it being unnecessary, hey man, don't grind it if you don't want to. Tell you what, you tell me how it could be a BAD thing to clean welds up before you multipass, or even clean them up after the pass just to make a nicer looking finished product. I'd be real interested in hearing the downside to being just one more step professional. It's like when people run welds and in between they don't snip the tip off their stickout wire. I do. Because it's just one more way to ensure a good clean start. Do you have to? Not at all. But why not? Not like it's turning water into wine.

Some of us are more than satisfied doing just enough to get by though, which is fine and dandy. I prefer the one step further lifestyle.

As for what you would multipass on a car, who knows. Theres times when things come up. Routine? No. But neither is the necessity for a lot of things that are just good practice/info.

 

Very true you need to know whats happening, pysics?

 

I rarely see it and I don't think there's anything magical about the wire we buy from Weldwell. If you're regularly getting silica deposits I'd say it's not normal and you have a problem, cleanliness and inspecting the weld is a given.

I don't, good machines don't ball the wire enough to justify it and if there's too much I'll flick it of or lay it on the work where it's simply pulled or falls off. Hot wire fires up quicker, if you're mindful how little penetration you have at the start you'll be used to a little fettling there anyway.
I build and rebuild steel and aluminium bodies and chassis for a living where the luxury of any process is available, Oxy/Acetylene and MIG are the staple choices. If I had to choose 2 for home they'd be Oxy/Acetylene and stick.

 

Funny, i build structural supports, pressure vessels, tanks, blowers, etc. Some is us gov and processes like removing all possible contaminates and pre clipping are called out in specs. Must just be for shivs and giggles though. :-( Still waiting to hear about the technical deficiencies with this though. You sorta sidestepped that part.

 

I think clipping the ball on the end of the wire is sort of like keeping your tungsten sharp, better arc control at the get go.

And I see some real welders sharpen their tungstens with slab sides insteat of spinning the tungsten against the grinder. Again, keeps the arc more in control.

 

ebduhya.........if silica deposits are rare to you in MIG process....then I'd really like to know what WORLD your welding in.....maybe....what name your certified under......maybe even what Company Name your cert'd under.......

I'm concerned, 'cause in 7 solid years of Structural MIG cert's.....I've YET to see a MIG weld WITHOUT a silica chip on top of it.

Really....I dont think I've ever seen a noncleaned MIG weld without silica on top.

The welding inspector I work beside.......he'd pull my paperwork like THAT if he saw me run a multiple pass weld without cleaning between passes....that's MIG / TIG / ARC. PERIOD.

I run spray arc & short circut processes on MIG daily....using either 85/15 or 90/10 Argon CO2 mix.

It's funny you've never seen silica on a weld, when I'm in the optomitrist once ever six month's getting a chip of silicate glass pulled out of my eye. That happens religously. Carl Hagan

 

AMEN to that brother. haha I HATE silica/other slag deposits in my eye. Safety glasses and a grind hood (Optrel Satellite) and they STILL manage to work their way around. Slag is like the magic bullet was. haha

I kinda gave up on the debate when I was informed that good welders don't ball and that's why you shouldn't need to clip between passes because you can just stick your wire to your workpiece somewhere else and pull on it to solve the problem.

Anyone who has ever welded PROFESSIONALLY and gone through any state or federal certifications knows the background behind all this stuff, so I won't preach to the choir. Like I said though, there's a reason inspectors (especially re: gov't work) are ANAL RETENTIVE about the specifics like this.... because it can make a difference.

Some people weld for a living, and some people do something that requires a little welding. When it comes to the technical aspects, I'll dock more faith in someone who has certs and that's all they do.

 

If you can't see the silica eye dancing around in the puddle while you are welding with hard wire perhaps you should be using a rivet gun. The hardwire process GMAW is limited by the Oil Companys / Engineering Firms / Gov't etc because it's a cold process prone to lack of fusion in multi pass welds. Even the best of certified welders AWS / ASME will grind the hell out of all but the final pass to insure the weld is (tied in).
Perhaps the worst thing in the last 20 years has been the sale of the cracker box migs through the home improvement stores. The average guy thinks he can weld anything because he can produce a bead with his cracker box.
Shit in - Shit out that's the bottom line.