Hot Rods Is it possible....

In oval track racing the toe change is a very important part of the set-up. That, and camber gain, really determine how a car handles.
Both of these are equally important on a drag car. Anything that causes the front wheels from going straight (in any plane) scrubs off speed.

If it's as bad as it sounds, you won't need the dial indicators to check. You can see it with the naked eye. When you get everything squared away, the dial indicator check will help you to fine tune everything.

The 60's Ford uni-body cars with the springs above the upper control arms were notorious for the sag Falcongeorge talked about. Ford did have bracing across the shock towers on the HiPo cars, but it wasn't always enough. More than one these has had the whole front end collapse due to fatigue. Add rust to that mess and, "Here comes TROUBLE!"

The way to 'fix' this is to get it on frame machine (not an alignment rack) and have everything pulled into place. Then weld in whatever bracing is needed to keep it that way. That should make it as good as Ford designed it. If you want to get it better than that, be prepared to move pivot points and change whatever it takes to get there. A lot of work, but that's the right way.

 

Sorry, I was typing at the same time you were.

With that info, I'd do what Andy said, measuring the toe and camber changes while jacking up the car. If you don't fix the rear springs before aligning it, you will have to do it again after.

 

With front of car up shouldn't the camber be negative? Top of tire in? must be one hell of a toe change when its up which is about the only thing for the tire noise? Or am I missing something?

 

What alignment specs was it set to?

 

I would assume it was set to ford specs. I'm going to swing by the shop tonight on the way home and talk with my guy. Gets his input.


Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app

 

In my experience, those original specs have little to do with today's tires, today's roads, and today's expectations for handling.

For all Ford vehicles with this platform I always do a Shelby Drop (upper control arm relocation), and align to these specs:

1/8” toe in.
-.5º to 0º camber.
+2.0º to +3.5º caster

Absolutely no more than 0.25º difference between sides.

Without the Shelby Drop, the tops of the tires tip inward, towards the engine, the instant that the chassis is unloaded, be that in a corner, or during weight transfer on launch.

 

The shock towers due fatigue. I had a 70 mustang that the shock towers fatigued where the upper a arm bolts on. The alignment would change every time there was a shift in the load on the car: going over rail road tracks, hard acceleration, etc. Take a hard look at the whole shock tower.
Mark

 

I'm planning on a Shelby drop this winter. I'll have the motor out anyway. Just adding more shit to the list of things to do. It's kool tho!


Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app

 

Did you ever remedy the situation? How so?


Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app

 

I don't know if it the tires should be tipped in at the top or bottom. However when it's up on a jack the tops of the tires tip out. Bottoms in.


Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app

 

You are suppose to take your foot off the brakes when you get on the gas.

 

With out question.


Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app

 

Something doesn't make any sense. These car always go into extreme Negative Camber at full Droop (like when jacked up or under a hard launch). You are saying yours goes Positive at full droop, geometrically that is Not possible with stock A-Arm mounting locations. The upper arm is considerably shorter than the lower, and they are spread further apart at the chassis end than the spindle end, which makes the upper arm pull inward as it drops below parallel faster than the lower arm. They also toe out at that extreme end of their travel, hence the tire squeal. If your car is lowered and is going to the extreme end of it's travel without a lot of power or hard hooking rear suspension, something is amiss and or your front shocks have no rebound damping.

 

So. Just got home a jacked her up. The Ranchero. Not the ol lady...... Did a quick shake down. And drum roll please. Brand new two years old lower ball joints are FUCKING WASTED!!!!
So to confirm. I'm a dumb ass. Yes jacked up top of tire is tilted in. Thank you hotrodon.
And only here in the hamb can I get good information. Thank you.
Now wasted lower ball joints will cause some very serious alignment issues no doubt. It got all out of whack at some point. Time to take some shit off and get this bitch sorted out....
Mofo....


Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app

 

I do them all of the time with the motor in. The longest part of the job ids going to the hardware store to get the drill bit, if you do not already own it.

 

In the 70's, I wrecked a '65 Mustang and swapped the front suspension into a '65 Falcon. The steering arms on the Mustang spindles were lower than the Falcon but I did the swap anyway because I wanted 5 bolt wheels. I had a lot of tie rod angle that caused bad toe change when hitting a dip in the road (enough to make the tires chirp). Being a teenager, I just stuffed the coils with spacers to stiffen them up.

Gary

 

Gammz - better to find out now than on the road somewhere.

 

So now a guy has to wonder why is the mustang suspension upgrade industry standard when upgrading a falcon? On the cheap that is. We don't have rack and pinion money.


Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app

 

I'm going by a 45 year old memory of when I was 17. Check your tie rods to see if they are angled down steeply. Whether you have a rack or a center link, the tie rods should be straight across.

Gary

 

Those may have been different spindles other than '65 units. 1965 spindles, be they 6-cylinder or V8 have the same geometry.

 

'65 Mustang V8 w/PS into '65 Falcon 6 cylinder w/manual steering. This much I'm sure of.


Gary

 

Does not matter. Still the same geometry on the spindles.

I have a mixture of V8 and 6-cylinder parts on my Falcon that several people have told me absolutely will not work, yet it does.

It is possible you had '67-later spindles. Those are not the same as '65-'66.

 

I'll check part numbers this weekend and report. I'm fairly certain that spindles are from a 65-66 stang. The tie rods and other bits all came in a kit I bought online. Shit news the company I got the kit from is out of biz. Permanently.


Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app

 

And is a center link. Falcon center link.


Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app

 

Alright all, The short story is I took the Chero to the shop today and had the alignment checked. She was out of spec. How? No idea. Only thing I can come up with is it wasn't set up properly the first time. Or the springs settled more. I have no idea.
So good news. She drives like a new car. Well one from 1964 anyways.
In other news..... I will be starting a build thread on another project I have come into. This one is full on race shit.


Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app