Is Nostalgia Top Fuel Dying out?

correct, X2

 

Agreed, I think the rules should be 200" limit. the cars still look great at that length. When I had my car built, there was a 225" limit and I chose to take advantage of that but, I could have my car shortened to 200".

People who own or build for this cl*** would want to run at least mid 6s at 220ish mph.

 

I was involved in the nostalgia funny cars when they first started coming out, or should I say back. When we first got started, there were about 6 cars in the midwest and we all seemed to run in the 6.50 - 6.30 range and I don't remember anyone really tearing much up, we were all having fun and running was a hobby. Then more people got involved and money started to be a factor, fancy blowers, fuel pumps and spare motors in the trailer and some body modifications that don't fit the nostalgia theme in my opinion. I guess that's why it's called racing as there always seemed to be someone that had to win and had the money to do so.
My feeling is that the nostalgia racing is going to price itself out of business within the next few years. It is common now to see new pistons installed between rounds on some cars. When I first got involved we rarely pulled the pan at the track, the only work we performed was setting the clutch, changing plugs, running the valves and changing the oil. Now to be compe***ive you need to run in the 5's, and it's hurting more and more parts to do that.
I agree with Applekrate and dreracecar in their opinions, it's a shame that if you want to go out and live a dream that it will now cost even more. I dropped out last season, I still have a lot of good friends that I go to visit on occasion, but I see more and more cars struggling to stay afloat, and I've seen a couple drop out because of the expense.

 

Consider that in 1990 NHRA T/F cars were running high 4's. low 5's and FC's were going low 5's. 6's in nostalgia cars was pretty fast. Now we have nostalgia AA/Gs cars running 6.60' at 225. From a spectators view ( and THEY buy the tickets), a nitro car should go faster. a match race between two 6.60 cars wouldn't pack the stands. Less spectators = smaller appearance money.
The glory days of the 60's will never come again, no matter how much people wish they would. A huge part of the 60's AA/Fd appeal was smokey runs, when they went to slipper clutches dragsters started losing appeal, replaced by FC's with long smokey burnouts. To go back to real 60's ch***is would be nuts, totally unsafe. The idea of an affordable nitro car is fiction ( affordable to who)? Nitro racing has always been expensive, yes even in the 60's.
Longer WB's, wings etc. are only smart at those speeds. there is a reason, besides going faster, that things changed. As for the NHRA banning parts, they are always damned if they do, damned if they don't. Besides racing, it's alway seemed to me that *****ing about the NHRA is a racers favorite p***time. How about TF cars simply going to a bigger tire? When you have nostalgia FC's running almost as quick and fast, dragsters lose by comparison. That's the real problem here, and the reason why NHRA FC's still carry more weight than TF cars

 

Bakersfield packs the stands to watch "cackle" cars idle down the return road and park. Why wouldn't people like watching cars like that run?

 

Gary, so, you are saying that people attending an event would go and use the bathrooms when mid 6 second front engined nitro cars come to stage after they just watch AA/GSers? I'll disagree.
Cl***es like AA/GS, Jr Fuel and others have also moved away from recreating the golden era and have become quite modern. That may be another reason why AA/GS has practially died as far as car count, the crowd is less enthusiastic as well.
Fans like to see, hear and smell nitro! AA/GS cars cannot compare in that way as a fueler, any fueler, can.
I wish to not come across as the one *****ing about NHRA but, if what I said in past posts is not true, please correct me.
NHRA is the big show, the NFL of drag racing and that is fine. It is the main fan base.
My comments refer to a niche of drag racing, nostalgia racing. Nostalgia racers wanted to be separaed from the Big NHRA stuff to recreate the glory days, not try to compete with them. Now, NHRA is in control of both.
It was the same thing with the 426 being banned in NTF for a few decades. We all know the 426 came out in '64 but, it was not used much until the late 60s. By making the 392 engine the main stay in the cl***, it also separated it further from its big brothers in the big NHRA shows. It helped give the cl*** more of an iden***y.

as far as the funnies getting out of hand these days, it is partly the same thing by not limiting blowers, fuel pumps and mags.
NTFs are made, constructed to fit the M&H 12 16 tire, Funnies are not. A Top Fuel spec tire would not even fit on a fuinny car. I am sure the frame would s****e the track.

Keeping a Top Fuel cl*** direct drive, 12" spec tire, 3.90 rear, early hemi, etc, gave it iden***y and separated further from their larger brothers.
Even though the funnies can be quicker due to their 2 speeds and larger tires, the fans are still glued to their seats when the Fuelers run.
I only see the stands empty out when the nitro cars, all of them, are finished.
Next time you are there, notice how the stands thin out after all the Fuel cars ( funnies and diggers ), all the fuel cars, run. When they call "A Fuel" people go to the pits, to tinkle or whatever. Is A/Fuel boring? no, inexpensive? no, fast and quick? yes. But, still, it does not have the fan appeal as any fuel car does.

 

The hell you can.

 

Why not????

Look at some of the *****in cars that run in 7.0 Pro.

 

Nitro and nostalgia sell now because there are still a lot of us that remember the good days. Now fast forward to the youth of today (Ok I mean some of the youth today) and they think nitro is nitrous, the movies Fast and Furious are what they relate to. It's not really their fault as the manufactures no longer make an exciting car to buy and make them impossible to modify. Kids don't have the same interests as we do or did. Most would rather spend the day in front of a TV then spend a day at the drags. It's the old farts and their families that make up the crowds at nostalgia events.

 

apple crate i totally understand. when i ran my a/fx car i had deist make a spec-20 silver fire suit for me. the kb block in the car was race hemi orange and only a few people caught it. i ran a moon tank and a tach drive distributer and a hole host of period correct parts. but i also ran a diaper, fire system, billet heads, blower restrains etc. there can be a happy medium. after a fans fifth or sixth beer does anyone think they care if the car going down the track has a billet block? as long as the track owner made some cash and the fans had fun and the show was good there will be another race next year. i would really like a hard core nostalgia cl*** to i just don't think it will happen. now if a cl*** does form where do you race? do you go to a nhra palace with a big tower and big concrete guard rails and you are so far from the action you can't see a thing from your aluminium bleacher seat. a nostalgia car is nothing without the nostalgic environment. it just kills the whole feel of the event. you need the total package to do it right.

 

Let's hope there is....'cause I'm currenty helping build one.....150", laid back cage....etc.......but will run alky...so not really a TF. But will look like a real '60's cars...not these abortions over 170"......yes, I just said that! Too long of a nose make 'em look like Pinocchio when he's lying his *** off.....haha
Maybe the "leader" will post a build thread soon....

 

just what is period correct? from the fifties to the seventies the look of the cars changed. the parts also changed. if a car is built what is it to be built to look like. and how far do you go with this. is vinyl lettering now outlawed only allowing gold or silver leaf? pulling your car to the line with a new dually sure would kill the look. does the look change when you service your car next to your enclosed modern trailer? this is a big can of worms with too many opinions and no final answer.

 

Well I'm up here in Canada close to an NHRA sanctioned track (betting you have been to it), so maybe its different here, but I dont think they would let a nitro car with anything like a period-correct cage run here. I am just talking about a cage that will look right from the stands, ie laid back with a single main hoop.

 

Racer-x raises some good points, just how period correct?
Applekart, you are preaching to the choir! Sure all you say is correct for the die hards fans like us, but it isn't for the casual ticket buyer, and that's the majority even at the March Meet and CHRR. I just think the average guy doesn't care so much about 12" tires or "period correct" that much, they care about smoke, noise and fast. There's a whole lot of of real lack of knowledge and mythology about "the day", I see it here on the HAAMB and hear a lot of it at Famosa. I can't fault people for being young and not having been around in the 60's, but it doesn't neccesarily translate into what's safe and realistic today. When AA/FD was at it's peak, you had push starts, smoking runs etc. These aren't practical today, PLUS dragsters were the kings of the strip because they were the quickest and fastest of all cars. That's barely true today.
You just can't go back in time. I think the diggers need to pick up a couple tenths at least, that would require rule changes, not be cheaper, but it could make them kings once again.
Im not saying TF cars aren't cool, they are! In the 60's there were many places to race T/F, now there aren't. I think FC's have an easier time booking match races, many TF cars run mostly at the March Meet and CHRR, doing the whole heritage tour is a money loser while FC's can easily book at local tracks and draw people.
The thread subject is"Is nostalgia top fuel dying", not the 60's, or are the cars cool. It IS dying, or at least dwindling, the question is why.

 

It comes down to this; either change the rules to allow the NTF to haul *** (ie closer to NFC engine/tire rules) or pull the cl*** back to shorter wheel base more "period" car. My feeling is there will only be about 5-8 guys out there able to rule each other in the comming years. When was the last time someone built a new NTF car? I'm talking a new team. Bartone, I would guess. For all the talk about money and the cost of running nitro there always seems to be guys building NFC's.

 

racing is a lot of things to a lot of people. here in the midwest cars with doors are king. the stands are full for nostalgia super stock and gas cl***es. top fuel always has and always will be about who can go the fastest and who has the money and brains to go faster. money is not the whole picture. for those that can't afford it grab a hot dog and watch from the stands or build something you can afford and have fun with. just because i can't afford to go to a packer game does not mean i can't enjoy it on tv. thirty years from now we can run our modern cars in a nostalgia cl***. is someone going to say hey that old car is not nostalgia. but to todays fan it will be.

 

Posted for Marty Strode

 

Of course they (NHRA/ Track safty guys) would req. a modern double hoop cage. But there are cars out there (Mr. Boston/Horan Sr/Murry Mike Cross) that are safe and look the part of a 60's Top Fueler.

 

I thought you might want to see how the cl*** started 25 years ago at Fremont. It started as Top Eliminator, 150" max wb, push start, no burnout. We had 4 cars in 1986, Jim Davis, Sammy Hale, Pierre Poncia and me. That is me warming up our Kent Fuller car. I am writing a story about it, ***led 7 seconds for under $7,000. The #257 car was ours 2 years later, a Don Long. Just thought you might like to see how things have evolved since my old friends Tom Prufer an Brian Burnett came up with the concept.

 

Yeah, be sure to paint yer freakin wheels

 

Here is a picture of "Nitro Neil's" Fuel Coupe I shot in the mid 90s at one of the Super Stock Reunions I organized at Virginia Motorsports Park. The NTF movement was young and there was a place for Neil at the time. The field consisted mostly of guys who had been there before 25 or so years earlier when they ran on a shoestring like Neil was. Most of the old guys had done well in life and were having fun spending some of the money they had made racing again. Not Neil. He was still in his 20s and working full time as an aircraft mechanic. He was single and had a volunteer crew, some who had worked on Fuel cars 25 years ago too. They were all nice sleep depraved guys. But they sure had their **** together....much like "The Surfer" team in the '60s. They were always the crowd favorites. Neil could talk the talk and then walk the walk. I can't tell you how much I enjoyed being around when he made a run....watching the spectators being amazed. It was ill handling but Neil could drive the hell out of it.

Neil quit racing, got married and started a family. A couple years ago I had my '33 Es*** convertible, a car I had owned for over 40 years, on ebay and Neil called me about it. It had been 10 years since I had talked to him. He told me he still had the coupe and a good wife who let him do just about anything....including putting the Coupe on the track again just for fun if he wanted too. But he had a couple kids now and wanted to spend his excess funds on a street rod. He was still working as an aircraft mechanic and life had been good for him. It couldn't have happened to a nicer guy. Some magazine needs to do a story on him to remind those who were around 15 years ago of his accomplishments and also make those who have never heard of him aware. He was something else.

 

not with a double hoop cage they dont. You and I are on a totally different wave length as far as what cons***utes a "nostalgic" looking dragster, and I'm not going to get into a ******* match over it. And for my money, and alot of other peoples, therein lies the crux of the issue. Maybe thats why cacklefest cars outnumber NTF cars ten to one, as several have already stated.The current crop of NTF cars are neither/nor, and thats the problem with thier popularity. The guys on this thread may not want to hear that, but several of the same guys have delicately skirted around the edges of it right here on this thread without getting down to it.

 

You can't see the cage when there's a CHUTE PACK body covering it....silly.....
It is possible to build a ch***is that will p*** tech and still have "the look"....
Just because the driver sits on the rearend doesn't mean it's "nostalgia"....

And who cares what the fans wanna see.....
I wanna drive one of these things to relive the past and know what it was like bitd......and to just see if I'd CHICKEN OUT.......haha.
NTF NEEDS to die off.......bring back some Jr. fuels and top GAS cars....

PS...I understand why the cl*** is how it is today...safety concerns...blah, blah....but it sure would be cool to run a FED with '60's parts on a ch***is that p***es tech yet still looks the part.....even if it ONLY runs in the high 8's...sounds fun....

 

And that about sums it up.

 

hot rod mag did do a story on neil and myself and tom motry and mike fasier around 1990. neil lives just a few miles from me and we hang out several times each year. frank you are correct he is the real deal. the young kid that always had a dirty shirt on helping him was jimmy young who drove the crop duster at last years march meet. neil was there to helping out. how about another reunion for all of us nostalgia guys. i made it to every one you put on.

 

Hello Brian,

I should have guessed who you were by your avatar. It's nice to hear from you. You and your car were a big part of my reunions and I appreciate your support. However, I am too old and don't have the funds to organize anymore reunions. Tell Neil hello for me.

 

Speaking of Jim davis, wasn't he killed in his nostalgia car? Not trying to be morbid, but safety IS a huge consideration.
So...now we are nostalgic for the early nostalgia cars? Anybody for irony?
Maybe the whole problem is "nostalgia", racing is racing; it was racing in 1965, going quicker and faster, doing whatever it took. There wasn't any thoughts of purity then.

 

That was the age of learning, innovation, and pushing limits.
The only "Tradition" was trying to go quicker and faster.

Unfortunately, some people died in the process,
because the cars were faster than they were safe.

So the rules evolved, to protect the drivers;
and the cars continued to get faster.

 

In addition to having my own race cars, I host 6 cars shows each year. 3 of them are at Speedworld Dragstrip outside of Phoenix and include drag racing. Speedworld has been around since 1961 and retains its vintage look and feel.

The first Sunday in April each year I host the Nostalgic Show & GO!

If someone is thinking of building, or has, a front motored Top Fueler or altered as I do and wants to have some fun, contact me. Lord willing, I plan to be doing this for a long time so, this invite does not have an expiration date.
Perhaps, we can start something like they did in the late 80s/early 90s.
inches to weight
any percentage
6-71
cast pump
point mag
12" tire
direct drive
3.90 gear
Maybe a weight break for those using an iron block as they used to have.
Current safety rules, ch***is, can, blower restraint, fire system, etc, etc

This is not a fantasy, it is something that did work years ago and it could work again if we could get the right group of cars.

In the coming years, would be willing to travel to Sacramento and other places with my iron '59

Code:

389 powered AA/Fueler.

I just want to have fun and enjoy the nitro experience.

If you are a promoter or track operator, keep me in mind.

Beside Speedworld, SIR in Tucson would also be very interested in hosting something like this.

There, I said it.

If any of you know someone with a similar car, or is building one, have them contact me about this possibility.

 

frank neil talked my ear off about your car when he was considering buying it. he really wanted it. your reunions had such a big influence on me. i got to meet all the ss and fx stars in person and hear their stories. i had so much fun i really feel fortunate to have been a part of it. thanks for all your hard work putting those together i will say hi to neil for you. take care