I'm considering a car in CA that's "Sold as is on lien sale paperwork" and another one in TX where the seller will need to apply for a mechanic's lien. This basically means that the seller owes someone else money for the car or owes the seller money, right? The CA photos look like it's in a body shop with fresh paint, so I'm guessing someone had work done and didn't pay and the shop is trying to recoup their costs. That also probably means they don't have the title. The TX seller says the owner decided he didn't want the car 10 years ago and just left it. So how does that work? How do you get a title? How do you safely buy it? I've heard of using an escrow company to manage the sale, but also that a lot of scammers use those. It's not a rare car, but these are at good prices and all examples east of the Mississippi are rust buckets.
I have purchased a couple of car's that have had lien's against them at the time of sale. It is critical that you receive a "Lien Release" card, or similar to go along with the title and / or Bill of Sale. The DMV will not transfer titles without the Lien Release card.
The seller should be the one with the lien on the car. They are selling it for storage fees, etc they believe they are owed. As long as the paperwork is in order, should be good. Contact your DMV and ask them what they would need to see.
The CA car looks to be a lien ("mechanics lien"), where the vehicle is being held in lieu of non payment. The TX car looks to be an "abandoned vehicle". Both processes will be specific and specific to each State. Ultimately, the leg work involved to get the vehicles titled in the sellers name is the duty of the SELLER, not the buyer. They need to iron out all the paper work BEFORE someone buys the car, however some sellers make an attempt to unload the car with a 'bill of sale only' and leave the buyer with all the leg work that can range from a pita to near impossible in CA. As always, make sure the title is current and in the name of the seller before you buy. Otherwise move along, there's plenty of cars for sale with clean titles.
Okay, since we're "practicing law without a license", here are my thoughts on it. Start a discussion with both the lienholder and the seller to get everyone on the same page at the same time. Buy the lien from the lienholder. You may be able to do that at a discount and the seller doesn't have to know. (But just ask the lienholder and see, don't threaten. Nobody likes a dickswinger.) There is still going to be a lienholder but it's you. The seller shouldn't be able to sell the vehicle out from under you. Actually, the seller can't sell to anyone without your full approval and cooperation. This may sound like you can squeeze the seller for a better price...... but be aware you may trigger "added damage" if you jerk that chain. Find out what your local DMV needs for you to get a new, clear title and get those from the other 2 parties. You are basically assuming both of their positions and they are out of the picture.
is the Texas car also at a shop, if so shop owner can get a mechanics lien title, if it's been sitting in someone's back yard for ten years that will take a little more effort on his part DO NOT BUY WITHOUT A TITLE
I took the post as a “lien sale” not selling a car with a lien on it. Two different things. If a lien sale, you can negotiate the price, the seller accepts the money and clears his/her lien. If it has a lien on it, you’d be obligated to pay the lien for ownership. Like buying a house without title insurance. You find there’s a lien on it, or find it’s clear of liens. You make the decision. If the title company says it’s free, and a lien pops up, we’ll, they eat the cost not you.
I bought a car for one of my boys that was a mechanics lien sale. Shop had the car, owner wouldn't pay the bill, shop filed a lien, owner never paid, judge awarded shop ownership. Had to go through a waiting period, I think 90 days, owner never showed up, even after being notified by certified mail. Shop then applied for title in their name with court ordered ownership, state granted new title. The shop did all the work, I didn't have to do anything but get the title changed to my name after we paid for the car. Car was an 85 IIRC, which at the time still required a title in my state. Now if it's over 35 years old, no title is required, and the state won't issue one even on a new owner.
In California when a lien sale is concluded, the individual owns the car. Take the lien packet to the the DMV, pay the fees, get title. It does not make back fees go away. I have Done Lien sales, and bought cars with lien sale paperwork, no problems. Your state DMV Rules are what matters. Call them and see what they have to say.
I talked to the TX guy today. I reminded him that it was illegal to sell a car in TX without a title according to the DMV. He said he was going to talk to the DMV today and see what he could do. According to him, he had done a lot of work on a lot of cars for the owner and then the owner decided he didn't want this car anymore and just left it with him about 10 years ago. He's supposed to get more photos, too. It might be junk. I hate it when people take bad pictures while trying to sell something!
The person in CA or TX needs to do whatever is necessary in their state to process the lien and get a title in their name. Until they do that it's not their car to sell. Once they have a title no different than any other sale. Laws on how to do this will vary from state to state. I had to do it several times in Iowa when I had my shop. In one case I ended up selling it back to the original owner who hadn't paid me and he had the balls to ask me to do more work on it!
Ultimately, the leg work involved to get the vehicles titled in the sellers name is the duty of the SELLER, not the buyer. They need to iron out all the paper work BEFORE someone buys the car, however some sellers make an attempt to unload the car with a 'bill of sale only' and leave the buyer with all the leg work that can range from a pita to near impossible in CA. As always, make sure the title is current and in the name of the seller before you buy. Otherwise move along, there's plenty of cars for sale with clean titles.[/QUOTE] All are correct in most states. First step is to check and see if your state honors Mechanics leans. Second is to make damned sure that the seller has jumped through all the flaming hoops and has the blessing of the state to sell it for the "mechanics" lean" Storage or impound leans are a bit different. We have bought a couple of cars from a towing company who Towed and impounded them and placed a lean on them. On both we had to have the state inspect them not only for safety but to make sure that they were clear in the system. We didn't have trouble with either and one came with a clear title and the other came back with a rebuilt title. Absolute first step might be going down to talk to your state's dmv and ask what the procedure is. Asl what paperwork the seller has to provide and what the steps are.
You are absolutely correct in your statement. A person who claims to have a lien , will have to produce the documents from their state DMV showing that they have done the filings and have authorization to request a clear title after sale. In California , a person who is selling the liened vehicle must post on public record that they are having a auction and vehicle will be sold to the highest bidder. I know , I am going thru that right now on 2ea vehicles that I have a lien on. Vic
If it was easy the sellers would have done it by now. Talk to a private DMV service,and see if their willing to take it on.If they are....let them. If they wont touch it walk away.
OK, I'll chime back in. While there are lots of ideas and opinions, the bottom line is since the OP is in Virginia, getting a title depends on Virginia DMV, in which rules and policies have changed greatly over the last 3 or 4 years. Even "clean" older out of state titles are researched in Richmond before a Virginia title is issued (ask me how I know). Getting a title without a clean "lien satisfied" authorized and notarized signature on it, or just a bill of sale is impossible. Best course of action is for the OP to get a clean title, or walk. Our DMV website (dmvnow) will explain a lot of things, but not all. Time for this thread to go nite-nite?
First I would talk to the lein holder and tell him you are interested in the car and find out how much the lein is for. If its a sizable amount, ask if he would settle for some lesser amount rather than continuing to be stuck with the car. Some of those places add storage fees which really escalate the lein. So first find out what is owed and if its negotiable .......and set an acceptable price. Then go talk to the owner and make him some kind of offer to sign the title over to you and get it notarized. He has nothing, so a minimal offer is better than nothing. Once the title has been notarized (make him go with you), go back and settle the lein.
A mechanic's lien is not ownership. It needs to be converted to ownership pursuant to relevant state law. It's basically just any other lien until that happens. You need two things when buying a car. Sale paperwork saying who sold exactly what car was sold to whom on what day for how much money and chain of custody paperwork proving they had the right to sell you that car. A bill of sale usually satisfies the former and prior registration record usually satisfies the latter. If you're sure that the person selling you the car owns it free and clear or is at least authorized to sell it to you it can be very easy to get a car without a title titled and registered in your name depending on how much you're willing to lie to the .gov, how much you know about the car's history and how much risk you're willing to take. In this regard running driving cars the owner may come looking for are very different than cars that get dragged out of the woods long after their owners died. It's probably not worth wasting your time with a car that's been taken by a business unless they have title in hand.
It's simple. If you buy a car from somebody who doesn't have a title in their name, you WILL have grief.
In Virginia a proper Mechanics lien is a legal document run though the courts. Some of you "experts" need to take time to do your actual homework rather than barfing out what you think or a useless opinion. MEMORANDUM FOR MECHANIC’S LIEN (vacourts.gov) It's also a pain in the butt for the shop owner who has to do the lien to collect any money. Along with fees and court costs.
My 2 pennies: If I understand it correctly you are buying the car from the lien holder. Each lien type likely has a specfic process set up in the laws of the state where it resides. Just educate yourself on those processes and be sure the seller follows them to the letter and delivers you a title with no recorded lien.
That's the next step IF I can buy the car properly. The CA guy won't return messages. The TX guy said he was going to look into what he needs to do and I'm looking into what I need to do. From what everyone has been saying I suspect that the TX will decide it's not worth his effort. I think he needs the cars gone and doesn't want to scrap them, but there's a limit
A couple months ago I purchased an SL500 that had been liened by a shop. The owner had brought it in and authorized $12K in work on it, then could not pay the bill and walked away from it. Owner of the shop had done everything correctly, did the mechanics lien and then put it in his own name as he wanted to keep it for himself, but then his wife found another one she liked better, so it went up for sale. Had a correct title, and the transfer went through without a hitch- in fact we have a smog shop here who is also a DMV agent, and the transfer was done there after the smog test
Most posters here have the right idea. Let the seller get the title before you buy it. Even if he wants you to pay extra for the process. Every state has a process to take care of these liens. The big problem is that each state has a different process. It may not work out in your state. If you need more paperwork from the seller to get it done I would guess most sellers will leave you high and dry and never respond to that request. The guy that would help you with that problem will already have done the paperwork.
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