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Is there such thing as to heavy of a wheel? Wheel experts out there?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by ccbb, Nov 3, 2007.

  1. ccbb
    Joined: Sep 14, 2007
    Posts: 75

    ccbb
    Member

    I'm building a custom car that has large "custom" alumnum alloy wheels to fit 36" tires.
    Right now the castings weigh 80lbs each, with steel rims, about 100lbs. rims clamp onto wheels in the 1910 fashion of the car.
    After I talk (or hear from) to a few people I'll see about having the outter wheel machined down in the outter center area when I know how much wall thickness to keep where the steel rims rides, although the rim will be supported by the outter lugs and bolts through wheels. I'll have lug holes drilled in and they will mount like mag wheels. Fronts are mounting to 1960 F100 5 lug front axle, rear will be on 1976 5 lug Ford large Bronco rear axle.
    Just curious if anyone knows any limits to what lug nuts & components can take. I'm sure a f-100 full of dirt or a truck cornering at 60mph may be some indication of strength.
    I did buy the best racing rated wheel studs I could find to press into the hubs.
    Image (just after casting) shows back side where it mounts to drum face. Wheel to right shows front.
    Any areas of worry? Suggestions?
     

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  2. I can't say what "too heavy" is, but heavy wheels & tires increase your unsprung weight (the weight of the vehicle not carried by the springs).

    As unsprung weight increases as a percentage of the overall vehicle weight, it's harder for the suspension to work- compressing and rebounding to conform to bumps and divets in the road surface. The result is a rougher ride.

    Hope this helps, maybe some others can give you actual numbers.
     
  3. 1BadAction
    Joined: Nov 1, 2007
    Posts: 7

    1BadAction
    Member

    the factory GM wheel/tire combo on the SS weighs over 80lbs at each corner, but keep in mind thats a 4500lb truck. If they were on a 2400lb car the weight would have much more of an effect on the suspension...
     
  4. ccbb
    Joined: Sep 14, 2007
    Posts: 75

    ccbb
    Member

    Thanks, guess I'll move forward and not worry too much.

    I also thought about putting a round steel plate on the inside of wheels behind the lug nuts - thinking it may be stronger than alloy, but not sure if it would help (or make worse) or be necessary.*
     
  5. ray
    Joined: Jun 25, 2001
    Posts: 3,798

    ray
    Member
    from colorado

    strength of the studs, nuts etc. should be of no concern. there are lots of 4x4's out there with HUGE tires, 40" or so , and they bust drivetrain components left and right before the studs shear or break. i'm talking launching up rock walls with 400 pounds of engine torque geared down roughly 100:1 through the drivetrain, and the studs are not the weak link. i imagine your car will see nowhere that abuse. like said above, i'd be more concerned with what all that unsprung weight will do to the handling of the car.
     
  6. ccbb
    Joined: Sep 14, 2007
    Posts: 75

    ccbb
    Member

    The car will be a mostly for shows, parades, slow touring - so if upswing will be the only setback, that's fine. At least I won't worry as much now while cornering some mild roads. Thanks!
     
  7. I'm sure that a lot of guys and gals on here would like to see your progress, why don't you take a lot of pics and do a tech post later, it would be VERY interesting!
     
  8. Okay, you are talking about a 36" rim that weighs 80-100 pounds without the tire, right?
    Im looking at the proportions in the picture.
    That's a little different than a 36" tire.
    What's the weight of the entire wheel/tire combo?
    You may want to consider going eight lug and having some brakes that can control that much inertia.
    Think more about Monster trucks.
    Safety first.

    My 2c.
     
  9. What kind of car is it? Any reason why you wouldn't use the original wood spokes- especially since the car will only see limited activity?
    Worked on an early Simplex some years ago where the customer wanted the car tested at 100MPH... the boss talked him down to 90, but that car had wood spokes. My point- if you have a good example of and original spoke- send it out to have more made.
     
  10. ccbb
    Joined: Sep 14, 2007
    Posts: 75

    ccbb
    Member

    It's a reproduction movie car...I'm sure if you see images below you will know. My HAMB screen name is a clue. Couple years of research and continuing. Seven years in the making, I tinker slowly... keeping it somewhat low key for now.
    Think it might stand out in the crowd (show) when finished.
    Tires are 36", rims, wheels about 30". This is how original cars were made, alloy to look like wood. I'm trying to keep pretty darn close to original. I don't know how much alloy (on the wheels) was left under the rims, or how much they machined them out (or casted with possible voids). Right now they are solid around outside diameter. The originals (of the six made) didn't even have front brakes, but many of the cars put them on the register in the UK for road use.
    Need help with steering arms (F100 RHD), steering column, wheel advice and front axle (narrow and dip), as in past posts.
     

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  11. SinisterCustom
    Joined: Feb 18, 2004
    Posts: 8,277

    SinisterCustom
    Member

    Hahahaha.....chitty-chitty-bang-bang...eh????
     
  12. ccbb,

    You're doing an AWESOME job with that!!! Still wondering if it would be possible to use vintage hubs and rims with the right number of spokes and have the spokes cut to match the profile of the original. Don't know how good I would feel taking material out of the spokes, or running down the road with 400lbs of spinning weight (kinda like 4 extra flywheels, if you know what I mean)
     
  13. Our fine four fendered friend.......
    Cool!
    Look at Crager S/S and the like.
    They have hollowed out backs on the spokes.
    Keep us posted.
    I love that car.
    Need help with the raft?
     
  14. tjm73
    Joined: Feb 17, 2006
    Posts: 3,545

    tjm73
    Member

    Heavy wheels will slow acceleration and lengthen stopping distances. But for what you said about it's impending usage it shouldn't matter much.
     
  15. Polara
    Joined: Jan 22, 2006
    Posts: 85

    Polara
    Member
    from Indy

    Keep in mind that no matter what you think its intended use will be, at some point, somewhere you are gonna wanna see if it really flies. Please plan accordingly.

    Awesome. Keep up the good work, and updates.
     
  16. ccbb
    Joined: Sep 14, 2007
    Posts: 75

    ccbb
    Member

    Already have wheels cast to exact original "exterior" specs and mounting to modern (60's 70's) front/rear axle (studs). Believe most vintage style wood wheels would require hub to shaft type mounting anyway. So need to move forward with fitted parts (rear axle).

    ...high ground clearence, pleanty of room for future "wings" - well, maybe.
     

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  17. Unkl Ian
    Joined: Mar 29, 2001
    Posts: 13,488

    Unkl Ian

    So you are going to woodgrain the spokes ?


    The weight shouldn't be a problem.
    I'd be more worried about the tires.
     
  18. scottwaters
    Joined: Oct 12, 2007
    Posts: 38

    scottwaters
    Member
    from DFW

    I would concern myself with the brakes more than the wheel studs. The weight of the wheel and brake assy that is rotating is much more an issue than what is being addressed. The heavier the rotational mass, the more braking capability you need, suspension is really a side note. My 2 cents, but look at it like this..a tennis ball goes rolling by, and as it passes 90 degrees to your arm, you reach out and grab it, stopping it from rolling in the process. Now here comes a bowling ball, and you try to stop it from rotating as well. What happens to your wrist in each situation?
     
  19. scottwaters
    Joined: Oct 12, 2007
    Posts: 38

    scottwaters
    Member
    from DFW

    With the understanding that your wrist is being compared to the forces the brakes of your vehicle would see in either situation
     
  20. ccbb
    Joined: Sep 14, 2007
    Posts: 75

    ccbb
    Member

    The cars had solid red spokes and wheels.

    ..that would be "carpal tire syndrome".
    I don't expect speeds over 45mph...so will learn to stop accordingly. After all I had a 1926 Model T ford, although lighter, all they had were transmission brakes to the rear wheels (also could use reverse pedal in a bind). All of the early cars only had mechanical brakes and many with rear brakes only, so I'm up on them with hydraulics and front brakes. The big Lincolns had wheels that weighed about as much but were not held on with studs, which was my first concern.

    Tires "should" hold up as it should be the total weight of the car on them.
    ===========
    >So you are going to woodgrain the spokes ?
     

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