Technical Issue with Cad 331 using 39 Lasalle trans.

While not an expert for certain I have had plenty of Cad/Olds trannies apart and have never observed a longer input shaft on any of them. In fact this week I have been sorting out all my extra tranny parts and measured a couple inputs. All the ones I have from the 50's Olds and 40's Cads measure the same at around 9 1/4.
Maybe we can get some input from Frank @F&J on this or one of the other fellas that can shed some light on this length issue.

 

Went out in the shop and pulled some pieces for a look. I have a 41 and a 51 Cad input shaft and they measure (from the front of the C clip groove to the end of the pilot) 7 3/8 and 7 5/16 . In comparison I have a shaft which I think is from a 50 Olds or maybe a 37 Cad and it measures out at 7 3/4. Pic attached:

Could you post a pic of the new bell housing and the casting number? Measure from the face of the bell to the base and I can compare that to the Olds I have here just for comparison.

 

Ok so I found some numbers on the Cad bell but I don’t know how much help it’s gonna be. The approximate width is 4.5 inches, but I’m going by memory I’ll check it more accurately tonight. The original 1949 Cadillac 3 speed trans that this bell housing was mounted up to is available to me if I want it but I always thought the 1939 Lasalle was better. Any thoughts? If I were to use the Cadillac trans I might be able to eliminate some of the guess work.


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Even though I don't have a project going like yours I find it interesting to read. I do cave a Cadillac motor (390) I'm gathering parts to install in a project I hope to work on at a later time.

 

Most Olds bell housings are 4 1/4 inches in depth. What is the depth of your new cad piece?

 

The Cad bell Is slightly deeper at about 4 7/16 or 4 3/8 not exactly sure but definitely deeper than the Olds one.


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So, at 4 7/16 it appears to be 3/16 of an inch difference between the Olds and Cad.?? And yet in the fit up you state that the nose of the input shaft is not engaged in the pilot bearing or am I just confusing myself here. Can you stand that engine on it's nose and place the bell and tranny on it to get a good close look at it and a measurement? (and some pics would be helpful)

 

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After some careful measurements I realized that in fact both the olds bellhousing (green one) and the Cadillac bell are the same depth.


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My only question now is what is the difference between a 1939 Lasalle 3 speed and a 1949 Cadillac 3 speed. In the attached photo the green one I purchased from a HAMBER and was told it was a 39 Lasalle trans. The blue one I just purchased today and was told by the owner that it was removed from a 1949 Cadillac Sedanette. The blue one has a slightly longer input shaft measuring about 7 1/2 inches from the c clip as opposed to 7 3/8 inches for the green one.


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They should be the same internally
It looks like the blue one has the square cut nose at the pilot bushing, where the green has a chamfer.
The blue one had an aftermarket floor shift the green one had the stock column shift.

 

Might want to pull the inspection cover off them and look at the condition of the gears, synchro and especially that 1st/reverse + the reverse idler for damage. Not uncommon to see the latter beat up with chipped and broken teeth.
Do you have the yokes for either one?
Have you had a chance to try the fitment with the new one to the pilot?

 

Also be aware that some/most require a bolt on rear yoke that is fixed as in stationary which requires a driveshaft with a slip yoke incorporated within.
.And then there are some that use a more conventional slip yoke. Can't tell from your pics but the green one appears to use the slip type yoke which (I think) would be the newer of the 2.

 

Thanks for all the info guys that’s great. So yes I took some careful measurements and the input shaft will fit perfectly in the pilot bushing. The gentleman I bought the blue one from also gave me the driveshaft with the slip yolk and some shift rods etc. I was glad to also get the bracket to convert to floor shift as I have a nice hurst synchro-loc 3 speed sitting on my shelf. So it’s ok to remove that bottom cover? I started to remove the bolts but had second thoughts when I noticed 2 of the bolts were larger than the rest I thought I may be taking apart something internally.


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Two of the bolts may be pilot bolts that have a pilot point that locks the arbor shafts in place. It has been a while since I pulled a Cad apart but I believe I am correct. Nothing will happen to the gear set when you pull that cover.
Glad that you got that yoke

 

@Paul documented the tear down of the cad box and the addition of a short 50 Olds tail stock. Typical of his work it is very detailed and worthy of you perusal. It has been referenced on many other Cad forums. Definetly a good read and one to put in your "favorites" file. Here is the link:
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum...alle-transmission-gets-olds-tailshaft.185196/

 

Thanks for that link Paul did an awesome job with that swap. I popped the cover off of that trans I just picked up and the rearmost gear on the cluster is in bad shape. I definitely should have removed the cover before purchasing oh well live and learn.


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Typical but fixable. Lots of gears available from various sources. What do the gears look like in the other tranny? I have a couple 1st/ reverse gears from a cad but no clusters. Perhaps you can make 1 good tranny out of the two units.

 

Yeah the other tranny gears are good so I’ll be able to just swap out the bellhousing and side bracket for the 3 speed etc. Do you know what gear that is on the cluster that’s all buggered up?


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here is a pontiac pic that will give you the breakout and nomenclature. This is the later selectric but the set up is very similar as far the gear set is concerned.

So your counter gear cluster is is the one you are looking at. Below it lies the 1st/reverse and along the side below is the reverse idler which may also have damaged from grinding the gears. Tooth counts can vary year to year.
When gm changed to the selectric they cast the inspection cover on the top so it is in reverse to the early designs.

 

That’s helpful thank you!


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Looks like torque loading to me,
like when coming off the line in drag racing.
Sliding low reverse gear probably shows same wear pattern.

Here are views of '37 Cad LaSalle and '50 Olds

 

My 2 cents... Thats definitely strees wear, not grinding gear wear. As previously mentioned, you could probably get a nice one out of the 2 u got.

 

@dugydog it has been a while since you posted. Any updates?