I got your point.......hence my statement, "Might as well bring out the NASCAR restrictor plates or put on minimum weight limits and nothing over 300 cu. in." Equality is not what racing is about, nor is the concept of running auto shifters against guys who are using a clutch and shifting their own gears what this cl*** is about. The concept for the HA/GR is summed up by Ryan in a short post of his from a while back that pretty well sums up the HA/GR spirit. "I just hope there are at least 1 or 2 guys out there that are banging gears with blinders on and a big *** smile on their face." Ryan That's what it is all about and that's what it will always be about.
I for one, get what both of you mean. And the only thing I can think of that MIGHT be practical would be to address the inequity via the original physics of the cl***. The modern cars could voluntarily run an inch (or whatever dimension works out reasonably) narrower tire to compete in HA/GR races. I'm not certain the reverse (+1" or whatever for HA/GRs) would equalize at the same ratio but that also could be considered for HA/GRs to run against moderns in their races. Thus those wishing to compete "across town" would need no more than a second set of tires for the purpose.
There is no such thing as cheap racing just less expensive racing and the best thing is to not change rules so there is a constant and that keeps the price down.
I ran down the drag strip for the first time in 1956 with my 40 Ford coupe in C Gas. I raced until 1965 and then called a halt and raised a family. In the " Old Days" it still cost money, I worked a part-time job to support my habit. I ran Super Stock and the rules were as tight as HA/GR rules but if you didn't tear your brand new car down and rework the engine you didn't win. That took some money. Perhaps I could have solved the trans problem with my HA/GR but I have simply ran out of money. I can race 8 to 10 times a year with the SDRA guys and race against like cars. It is heads up and with an automatic I can forget about blowing a trans, I hope. The cars are just the same as HA/GR's except for the transmission. I am not advocating the rules be changed for HA/GR's, nor am I advocating that we go to different tires. I don't believe there is much difference between the two and Cowboy Bob and 2B were the only ones in the 12's at MOKAN so the auto's didn't help there. Now I can park the car and wait until I can solve my stick shift problems or I can race and have fun with an auto. I choose the latter. Roy
IN 05 when all this started there were 3 cars 2 flaties 1 261 chev with pg .flaties had cast iron heads and dual carbs on one , 4 barrel onthe other. chev had 2 one barrel carbs on home intake and acomp cam . 06 rolls around flaties show up 300 inch mills 3 of 400 dollar after market carbs alum heads mallory dist ,3 94s on the other one. cheve get a 90 overbore set of pop up pistons set of homemade hedders same carbs /cam . chev is about 270 cubes . thats spotting F Hs 30 inchs and chev is the heavyist by about 75 lb . That when the F Hs started complaining to Ryan on almost day to day that the pg was unfair and ended up getting us banded. but the real problem was they just flat did know how to tune their engines.and they were breaking trannies and smoking clucths. Tranmissions dont make power they transmit it
Roy, Sounds somewhat familiar, I hung in 'til '66 but in the lower "stock" cl***es where it was cheaper all around. Got drafted and picked it up again in '68 when I came home. In the two years off it'd changed so much all I finally wound up doing was spectating for awhile before finally going in other directions (putting mostly, with some street rodding). It was the HA/GR cl*** that coaxed me back in. From your outlook I'd say you're going the right direction for your situation, likely a wise move. As to whether the tire thing'll ever be considered, I doubt it. It was just my response to the question posed. 'Til then, both sides'll certainly wind up racing each other from time to time and we'll have fun at it. Hell, we may very well never get that organized anyway. Come to think of it, it often wasn't very organized then either, I remember all the **** in plain stock cl*** rules from year to year too. They even tried to stem it with a "pure stock" cl*** once, to little avail. Unlike some here I still believe both iterations will grow, and reinforce each other in the process (think of a PR interpretation of Prop Strike's "ladder" concept). Like families we will always of course, be "enemies" between the lights and the traps. The other 23 hrs, 59 min, 47+ sec @ day it's still us against the world.
From what I have read in the past I am under the impression that the SDRA cars that run at Tulsa welcome the HA/GR cars to race with them anytime. They are not handicapped, it is ole time heads up racing...run what ya brung. There is one HAMB race a year that I am aware of and the SDRA cars can not run with the HA/GR cars there. So what is the problem...the HA/GR cars can run at either place. I have not read anything from the SDRA guys about how they feel that they are being mistreated. So if you have a HA/GR just run it and have fun. If you have a SDRA car then run with the dragsters at the HAMB deal...or not...just have fun. The rules are...no autos in the HA/GR cl***. There is a good reason for that and so it is time to just go racing and let it go. There is no way you can loose on this deal...unless you don't build a car . Zilla.
Oilcan...2 cl***es with a Top Eliminator sounds good. Mopar...Good point. I felt I had to make changes to our GMC to keep from breaking it. I can't afford to blow the engine so I put parts in it that I felt would stay where they need to be. I didn't buy most of them...I built them with my own 2 hands and lots of time and sweat. Old6...Point well made...However there were cars built in the 50's that were just a little nicer, better built, faster and it wasn't just the ones with the most money either. They were still all hot rodders. Bias tire questions...I talked to the Coker tire rep at MoKan and he said his tires met the minimum DOT speed rating "P" for a sustained 93 mph. That made me feel somewhat better about the bias vs radial tire questions raised by Godzilla and me in the past. I'll shut up about this now. Ron
you make great points about many from the era racing with no money, but, I would counter that they didn't purposely focus on building and racing on the cheap, they simply didn't have it to spend, and the low buck was the RESULT, not the FOCUS. A biker friend once told me "******** isn't engineer boots, a leather jacket and a rat Pan/Shovel, it's duct tape on your sneakers so you can AFFORD parts for your Pan/Shovel" and he was right- not having the money isn't the same as not spending it. However, I think I've gotten off point, at least partially. The intent of the cl***, as I see it, is to represent the era. Some do it in looks, some in intent/method. That much I agree on. But, where low buck becomes the focus, to the sacrifice of the vintage aspect, then I believe it has gone astray. That was the point I was trying to make.
"Where low buck becomes the focus, to the sacrifice of the vintage aspect, then I believe it has gone astray." Ahhh, I managed to miss that aspect of your point. No argument with that what so ever. "There were cars built in the 50's that were just a little nicer, better built, faster and it wasn't just the ones with the most money either. They were still all hot rodders." Absolutely. I was generalizing (perhaps overly) for the point.
I'll make one more comment about the Horrible being on hold. I didn't speak to you at MOKAN and I'm sorry since we are both from Missouri. If you saw something at the races that made you want to quit I don't know what it would be. My car made two runs one Ok and the other it broke. Hiney was fighting a ignition problem and was way down on times. The 2B was fighting a fuel delivery problem and solved it by eliminations. This was just racing as it always has been. These cars will slowly improve over the years. I am going to try to shave some weight off mine over the winter in the front end department but they are all the same cars. Hiney's is just like it was 4 years ago except he is working on improving the intake system. All this stuff is homemade except the intakes and heads of the flathead guys. My engine has only high compression pistons my own design intake and headers. My GMC is big in cubes but it is also big in weight. The engine out weighes a flathead by almost double. The Okie Outlaw has a 300 in.flathead and is a twiggy compared my overweight and he squirts out ahead at the line and makes you play catchup all the way down the track. The point is that these cars are not going to be built and then just stay the same for 10 years. It is the nature of racing to get an edge on your competetion and we are not cut throat at it but hopefully we will have fun at it. Even with all my problems this year I have had fun and I will tell you that 2B, Cowboy Bob, Hiney, Joe Hamby, Mr. Mac and all the rest are real gentlemen who make this fun so don't quit just build the Horrible and come to Tulsa and have some fun. Race at Mokan next year and you'll think why did I ever want to quit.Roy
Roy, First off, NOTHING any of you did or said at the Drags caused my decision. You lot are all GREAT folks, answered all my questions and were most affable and cordial. Please do not think for a second that anyone was out of line or did any thing untoward. The car I have is the issue. One of the problems with the Horrible is that it is a camel. A camel, for those that don't know, is a horse designed by committee. Comittees mean well, but they just don't work. Take a hard look at the pictures on my site. Its overbuilt, overweight and without a prpoer body it looks like a flintstone mobile, even after I cut 8" vertically out of the roll cage (pic coming). The answer MAY be to use this ch***is for a street machine and start again on a RACE ch***is. Like I said, the project is on HOLD.
Well as of today my car is an OUTLAW. The Powerglide is in I ran it through the gears on jack stands and the line pressure is 220 lbs. I changed the hand brake to a footbrake. I also put in all .125 aluminum floorboards. The car idles fine while in gear although up on jackstands I couldn't hold the wheels from turning above 2200 rpm. I can see red lights in my future. All in all I am looking forward to a day at the races without any transmission problems, I hope that is true. I am really excited about friday night in Tulsa, I am as excited as a 7 yearold on Christmas morning.Roy
Roy, Go to Tulsa and set a new record. I called Todd Bridges today (had to leave a message) and told him we needed some info about the nostalgia race at KCIR October 3,4 & 5. From what he told me last time we talked, we (HAMB) could run as often as we wanted and set up our own race program. I'll get more info after I talk to him. Ron
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