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History Japanese Flatheads?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by tubman, Jan 18, 2015.

  1. belair
    Joined: Jul 10, 2006
    Posts: 9,036

    belair
    Member

    The diesel was only used on the surface, and it charged the batteries. Usually only ran it at night. The Germans invented a snorkel for their big subs, let the diesel run underwater.
     
  2. I have this JapFord book. JAPFORD1.jpg JAPFORD2.jpg JAPFORD3.jpg JAPFORD4.jpg JAPFORD5.jpg
     
  3. SR100
    Joined: Nov 26, 2013
    Posts: 1,325

    SR100
    Member

    Car Graphic was a Japanese car magazine that focused on one topic per issue (at least in the early years). Most of those pictures are North American in origin.
     
  4. Flathead Dave
    Joined: Mar 21, 2014
    Posts: 4,026

    Flathead Dave
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from So. Cal.

    Flatheads produced in a Japanese factory but nothing about flatheads in mini subs but watch from the 11 minute mark.

     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2016
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  5. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,339

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    Well the use is pretty straight forward, it was for blowing up American stuff!:p
     
  6. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,339

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    Boy, don't say that to Winston Churchill. But yes, corporate support was especially strong, but there was plenty of support for fascism in the west.
     
  7. cfmvw
    Joined: Aug 24, 2015
    Posts: 1,102

    cfmvw
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    Sort of related, but didn't Henry Ford sell the tooling for four-bangers to Russia? I seem to recall that those were being manufactured well into the 1950's.
     
  8. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,339

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    I think they manufactured AA copies in Russia?
     
  9. HUH? Not everybody was enthralled with Hitler.
    Henry Ford built SOME good cars, but he was a well known racist, anti semite and refused to co- operate with the war effort. He almost destroyed Ford with his hateful stubbornness, and directly caused his son Edsel's death with his meanness, stubborn anti technology, and partisanship and insane ego and really, was not a decent human being.
    Facts are facts.
     
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  10. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,339

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    Oh, oh wet cleanup aisle 4! We got a sacred cow down!!
     
  11. Flatheads were used for all kinds of craft in the 30's!
    Here's the flathead powered P-15 small aircraft.
    [​IMG]
    Henry even tried to produce this plane (obviously NOT flathead powered ) the Ford Flying Flivver
    [​IMG]
     
  12. The Russians used 'em in GAZ M-1 and other trucks in WW@ and later, the germans produced Ford trucks and even cars before and during WW2/
    1942 FORD BLITZ
    [​IMG]
     
  13. Ol Henry
    Henry grew even more obdurate as he approached his 75th birthday in 1938 and there were signs that his stubbornness may have been a sign of dementia. Although he finally consented to the use of hydraulic brakes, he wasted years on an abortive five-cylinder engine rather than the six Edsel still insisted they needed. Edsel eventually ordered Larry Sheldrick to design a six-cylinder engine, but the elder Ford insisted on developing a competing overhead-cam design, perhaps still looking for something that would reaffirm his engineering prowess. The OHC engine was a failure and Sheldrick’s six went into production, replacing the smaller V8 for 1941. Henry viewed this as treachery on Sheldrick’s part and it probably contributed to Sheldrick’s firing in 1943, although the more immediate provocation was Henry’s discovery that Sheldrick and Edsel had been discussing postwar designs with Henry’s grandson, Henry Ford II, without Henry’s permission.
    Late in his life, Henry Ford became increasingly dependent on security chief Harry Bennett, who had been Ford’s strong-arm man and union buster since 1917. Bennett fed his boss’s paranoia for his own benefit, taking it upon himself to protect the old man from all enemies, real or imagined — a category that conveniently included anyone who threatened Bennett’s power or position. Henry gave Bennett enormous la***ude, even over Edsel, whose health was increasingly poor.

    Although only in his 40s, Edsel had suffered for years from recurring stomach ulcers and in 1942 was diagnosed with stomach cancer. His condition deteriorated rapidly, exacerbated by a bout of undulant fever, allegedly contracted after drinking unpasteurized milk from one of the family’s farms. He died on May 26, 1943, at the age of 49. Upon his death, his father resumed the role of president, the position Edsel had held (at least in name) since 1919. A week later, he appointed Harry Bennett to the board of directors.

    Although Henry Ford hated Franklin Roosevelt and had little enthusiasm for the war, the Ford Motor Company was one of America’s largest wartime contractors. One-time Ford executive William “Big Bill” Knudsen, who headed the Roosevelt administration’s National Defense Advisory Commission, had dealt primarily with Edsel and was uneasy about the ramifications of Edsel’s death. Aside from Henry’s possible dementia, he was almost 80 years old. If he died or became incapacitated, it was possible that Ford Motor Company would collapse, which would be strategically disastrous, or that control would fall to Harry Bennett, which Knudsen did not consider a palatable alternative.

    Eleanor Clay Ford, Edsel’s widow, and Clara Ford, Henry’s wife, did not like that idea any more than Knudsen did. In August 1943, they arranged for Henry Ford II, Edsel’s eldest son, to be released from the Navy. In December, the younger Henry officially became a Ford vice president.

    The intention was for Henry Ford II, then only 26 years old, to become his grandfather’s apprentice. Harry Bennett and Charlie Sorenson had other ideas and made every effort to shut the younger Henry out, constantly attacking and belittling him the way they had his father. The younger Henry had some allies, including sales chief John Davis, but Henry’s grandfather offered little help. By then, the elder Henry’s trust in Bennett was unwavering, although Bennett succeeded in turning him against Sorenson, who was forced to retire in 1944. Henry’s shaky physical health didn’t help; he suffered a stroke in early 1945.

    According to author David Halberstam, it was Eleanor and Clara who finally broke the deadlock, presenting Henry with an ultimatum: If he would not step down and let his grandson take real control of the company, Eleanor would sell all of her and Edsel’s Ford stock, which represented about 45% of the company’s total shares, and allow outsiders to take a hand. Although there’s little question that Eleanor and Clara were dismayed by the situation, Henry Ford II himself denied that story; he maintained that it was he and a small group of allies, including Davis and John Bugas, who convinced the elder Henry that his day was done.

    Either way, the result was the same: Henry Ford reluctantly announced his resignation on September 21, and Henry Ford II, then only 27 years old, became president. Bennett was the next to go, followed by many of his cronies. With their exit, the younger Henry began the difficult task of rebuilding and reorganizing.

    Henry Ford died on April 7, 1947. He had left his grandson a company in ruins, losing a terrifying amount of money each month and in such organizational chaos that just ***essing the magnitude of the financial crisis was a major undertaking. Recognizing that it was beyond his ability, Henry Ford II recruited former Bendix executive Ernest R. Breech as his executive vice president and de facto regent. Ford subsequently hired a host of former GM executives and designers as well as a group of bright young ex-military officers known as the Whiz Kids (of whom we spoke more in our article on the Ford Falcon. They spent the next decade setting the corporation on a more orthodox, fiscally responsible, conservative course.
    While Edsel and Knudsen were trying to set up Willow Run to produce urgently needed b-24's, Henry REFUSED to sell the government land near the plant to house some of the 20,000 plus workers because they were including "colored" people, and "coloreds" tended to vote Democrat. This meant employees had to ride buses for HOURS to high rent, horrible housing on public buses.
    Just one example of how petty and mean he was.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2016
  14. bundoc bob
    Joined: Dec 31, 2015
    Posts: 130

    bundoc bob

    Ford Flatties were found in the bomb bay running a generator when Leigh Lights were used by the RAF in WW2. [some had batteries instead.] They had a problem with disappearing bombers in the early days until they found that wiring issues in the wings leading up to the light mount caused fuel vapors in the wings to explode when the light was switched on.
    One old guy I talked to one day was X-RAF and he said one night they were hunting stuff off Norway and radar told them they had something dead ahead. When he switched on the light, they had "caught" a German battlecruiser. Then their whole world lit up as the Germans threw everything they had at them. He mentioned later that some guys panicked at night over Germany when flak was heavy, because the flash made it seem that it was very close even if not. I asked him wasn't he ever afraid? He said no, and after looking into his eyes I absolutely believed him.

    Always talk to un***uming looking old guys.
     
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  15. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,756

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Everyone forgets Adolf Hitler was Time magazine's Man of the Year in 1938. Before the war started Churchill was about the only one who warned against him. I'm not saying everyone was a fan but you would be hard pressed to find any serious criticism of Hitler or Germany before 1939.

    Henry Ford was 80 years old in 1940 and growing senile. As soon as his son Edsel died the government pulled Henry II out of the Navy and put him in charge of the Ford company. It was too important to the war effort to be left in the hands of a senile old man and his collection of yes men.
     
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  16. Torana68
    Joined: Jan 28, 2008
    Posts: 1,445

    Torana68
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Australia

    back to the op's thing, looks pretty rough so I'm guessing late war last ditch manned torpedo. The midget subs were well made for the time but as time went on they started making anything out of anything to throw at the allies .
     
  17. krgdowdall
    Joined: Apr 3, 2015
    Posts: 141

    krgdowdall
    Member
    from Alberta

    A bit of useless trivia The British landing craft, (manufactured by T*****croft boats) used in the D-Day invasion were powered by twin Ford V8 engines.
    The American landing craft , Higgins Boats LCVP, in the Normandy invasion were powered by a single Detroit Diesel, 6-71 engine.
     
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  18. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,339

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    And now Monsanto wants to do a deal with Bayer...;) some truth to that old saw about history...
     
  19. Speedy Canuck
    Joined: Jun 3, 2010
    Posts: 3,896

    Speedy Canuck
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Thanks for posting that Gary. I'm ***uming it's an excerpt from a book?
    A lot of people also forget (overlook) the fact that America was selling wartime supplies to Germany in 39, 40, 41 and even 42 (post Pearl Harbour). Not exactly advertised, but sales of steel and oil (along with other materials) were still being brokered.
    It's important to remember that WWII actually started in September of 1939 when Britian, Canada, France, Australia and others declared war on Germany. America supplied both sides of the war, as they were 'neutral' at the time.


    Sent from my iPad using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  20. This is a really interesting post....I don't know about flatheads in Japan, but many things must've been happening pre and post ww2 that have been forgotten to the mists of time. I had until a few years ago a British made tin side V8-60 dating from 1935. From memory that's an early motor and quite an oddity as it had a bell housing for a "full size" gearbox. Going back to the Japanese flatheads...could they be copies? My uncle used to work in the experimental engineering dept for Austin motor co. He remembers a load of brand new crated motors arriving from the US so that they could take them apart to reverse engineer with a view to developing some "new" engines!


    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     
  21. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,756

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    I believe Austin made a Bedford truck starting in 1939 or 1940, that bore a strong resemblance to a Chevrolet six. Their postwar six cylinder and four cylinder cars had excellent OHV engines in the same family tree.

    In any case it was common for all auto manufacturers to buy compe***ors' products for testing and evaluation. In Detroit they would buy a compe***or's car, test it on the proving ground, then take it completely to pieces and fasten all the parts to sheets of plywood. Their engineers and accountants would then do a complete cost/benefit ****ysis, piece by piece.
     
  22. Bigcheese327
    Joined: Sep 16, 2001
    Posts: 6,740

    Bigcheese327
    Member

    If you read U.S. Ford ads from the introduction of the 60-hp 1937 Ford, some of them talk about how the engine design had been road tested in Europe for a couple years already.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2016
  23. eaglebeak
    Joined: Sep 17, 2007
    Posts: 1,302

    eaglebeak
    Member

  24. Bigcheese327
    Joined: Sep 16, 2001
    Posts: 6,740

    Bigcheese327
    Member

    The midget subs (like used at Pearl Harbor and Sydney) were indeed all-electric. According to the website these photos apparently came from this is an experimental Kairyū-cl*** submarine designed for use late in the war. The Wikipedia article states that they were intended to be diesel-electric, like a full-size sub, but it would hardly be surprising if expediency trumped purity of design that late in the game.

    [​IMG]
     
  25. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,756

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    That is a Canadian built CMP (Canadian Military Pattern) WW2 era truck. They were made by Ford and GM with Ford V8 and Chevrolet 6 engines respectively. 500,000 were built in Canada and used all over the world. The most common truck used by the Allies outside the US. During the war Canada produced more trucks than Germany.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Military_Pattern_truck
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2016
  26. Bigcheese327
    Joined: Sep 16, 2001
    Posts: 6,740

    Bigcheese327
    Member

    When I think of the Wehrmacht and trucks named "Blitz," I think of the Opel Blitz, which was a GM product. Stovebolt powered, I think.

    Ford did set up the GAZ plant in the '30s and they produced Model A-type vehicles up through the war. There's a pretty well-known image taken during the Winter War between the Soviet Union and Finland showing a lot of GAZ trucks burned up on a forest road. They're often mistaken for Ford Model AA's.

    I recall reading once that somebody found the improved Model B engine tooling in the former Soviet Union in the 1990s and went to bring it back to the U.S. to produce engines for Model A folks and rodders (somewhat akin to the French flathead V-8's) but that they couldn't afford the unofficial tariff the Russian mob was requiring and the machinery all got left on the docks.
     
  27. k9racer
    Joined: Jan 20, 2003
    Posts: 3,091

    k9racer
    Member

    Just to throw a little more gasoline on the fire. About 35 to 40 years ago a article was published in Rod and Custom {I think } saying that the tooling for the 1934 Ford was sold to Russia . They talked about how nice it would be to find said tooling and mfg new 34 Fords. This thread has brought up a lot of history. I have enjoyed this read very much.. Thank You Bobby..
     
  28. Bigcheese327
    Joined: Sep 16, 2001
    Posts: 6,740

    Bigcheese327
    Member

    That would appear to be the next generation of GAZ that followed the Model A-based one. If Wikipedia is to be believed, the tooling at least survived WWII, which makes it likely it's still sitting in a warehouse someplace, surrounded by mothballed tanks and artillery pieces.

    [​IMG]
     

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