Jere Jobe Stromberg knockoff test results

I agree !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BB

 

The blacksmith forums call ****py imported anvils ASOs - Anvil Shaped Objects. Maybe these should be CSOs - Carburetor Shaped Objects.

 

Jere Jobe is well respected.

That said, I only have one question - the same one I've asked of everyone who has held one in their hands - is it a production piece delivered as ordered? Or is it a pre-production piece with a request for evaluation? It certainly seems to be the latter in this case based on the first paragraph. I do know that Joe Abbin received a pre-production piece for evaluation.

So they've been sent out to respected builders for eval...the real question for Speedy Bill is were any of the concerns addressed? Abbin got one several months ago and it doesn't sound like anything was addressed...

Will Speedy Bill listen to Jere?
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I vote on real ones...
Duane

 

I think POS will do just fine.

.

 

After personally having used the results of Jere Jobes work I would take anything he has to say about early Ford carburation to the bank. Fuelpump on here bought a complete bolt on 2x2 system for his '50 convert that he had Jere build. We took it out of the box, hooked up the fuel lines, turned on the pump, fired the engine, set the idle speed and never touched it again. It's still running today after 3 years on the road. Jere has a test engine and when he builds a system it's put on the engine, fired and tuned, and shipped.

Frank

 

You can't beat the real deal, Jere's honesty speaks volumes.

 

Just so I'm clear, no disrespect to Jere , I think he has done a great thing in evaluating this carb..
My experience (limited!) is that the more impartial you make a report like this ,the more credible it will be. and the product WILL be judged by the internet commun***ies about this stuff (the HAMB being the main one) and that opinion will seep out to the real world, and hopefully, the problems with it will be adressed, or more likely it sounds, they won't, and it will quietly slip away..

BY THE WAY,

I have run a flatty for at least a minute using a BEER BOTTLE full of fuel as a carb...sounds like it may be a better option for those on a budget..ask FLATOZ about that one!!

 

If the test results were Candy Coated, Wishy Washy, and Politically Correct,
some people wouldn't get the point.

Instead, Jere tells it the way it is, and he can back it up.

"Customer service" is a great thing, but it is no subs***ute for quality goods.

 

Please don't call that a scientific evaluation. I dont know about the new speedway carbs nor will I ever purchase them since I am more a 4-barrel guy, but as a guy that has written more then his share of white papers and evaluations I can honestly say that how this was written cannot be thought of as scientific in any way. If you don't like the carbs fine. But if your going to say they are inferior at least back your conclusion up with your testing results.

 

If the carburetor's base was of poor quality aluminum, it is legitimate to criticize that. To criticize a carburetor's base simply because it is aluminum (which the gentleman does, vehemently) is less than objective. One may say, less than honest.

If I buy into his 'reasoning' about the sins of an aluminum base, then almost all of the carburetors I own, or have owned, will have to be thrown away. How about yours?

Let me know when you put them in the trash, and I'll be there to pick them up.

Anyway, thanks for posting. It may save some deserving guys and gals an undeserved fate.

 

Jere does not have any credibility problems, and I doubt if he is trying to create a reputation as a clinical evaluator - he got well beyond that decades ago. Maybe it's the naysayers who have a problem with Jere's literary style. But at the end of the day junk is junk. If you have read Jere's comments, yet still go and buy one of the Speedway carburetor shaped objects because you don't like the style of his comments, more fool you.

 

Unfortunately, in reports of this nature if the data isn't represented in an impartial manner, ie. test the carburetor using equipment that is capable of collecting and recording data, interpret data according to recognised industry standards and report the data according to accepted standards in technical reporting, you will have.. Candy Coated, Wishy Washy, and possibly run the risk of falling into one of the many Politically Correct traps that infest society today.
This is why some here are concerned; you must be able state cleary what you mean to say. Imagine if Jere had to defend his report in front of a panel of scientific/technical peers or learned counsel. To use just one example from Jere's report. A questioner may ask; You say sir the words NOT GOOD, what do you mean by that? Do you mean the absence of GOOD? Do you mean NOT GOOD enough? Or do you mean there is a particular deficiency of GOOD, if so would you care to rate that deficiency on a scale of one to ten? But wait there's more; having received an answer ( a number) the questioner continues, so how have you arrived at this number, have you just plucked it out of a hat? What scale or type of measurement did you use to arrive at this number? Which other reports can you cite to support your claim? When was the last time your data collecting devices were checked for accuracy? And on it goes until the poor mans credibility is in shreds. That's why emotive language has no place in technical reports. Sadly this is also why Jere can't back his report up.

Now don't get me wrong, I fully support the spirit and the intent of his report and we are all grateful that a potentially dangerous product may be proscribed (banned) if our American brothers will alert the relevant authorities of the potential hazard this device has. From the report (such as it is) potentially serious safety issues have been raised that must be further evaluated. The consequences of not doing so are frightening, throttles jammed open and the consequences that could arise from those events; collisions (vehicles, property and pedestrians come to mind), with the further potential for fire as a result.

As a result of what I say do you think this report could be taken to the appropriate authorities and be taken seriously? Answer, No. This report as it is serves as a 'canary in a coal mine'. I hope this report is the precursor to other more definitive reports, but this is not a definitive report.

Now that I have bought the safety issue to the fore I trust some of you may alert the supplier that a potentially hazardous product has undergone preliminary testing and that reservations are held by the testing facility regarding; Use of materials, configuration, engineering and safety. Furthermore a recommendation should be made that further and more extensive testing be done.

I could go on and on, and I hope I've made my point, and not put you half to sleep with this overlong rant n rave.

 

Get the 97s made in England, worth the wate. Went 113 first time out and think I can go 125, Just did 95 in ehighth. Bobby ran 134 in 57 with 48s which are larger venturi.
dwrfab Don Ross

 

He could have said "It's a POS" and that would be good for many of us. Jere Jobe didn't buy his reputation, he earned it, and the respect that goes along with it.

 

Calling a bag of ****, manure, doesn't make it smell like roses. It's still ****.

 

I just wish I could get an honest opinion like that for every product, car related or not.

 

This was an informal evaluation... Jere's an old Areospace engineer. Check his site: http://www.vintagecarburetiontech.com/

He certainly knows how to do a formal white paper - to my knowledge this was to be informal...

~Jason

 

Most carbs are made of Zinc, not aluminum.

While talking to one of the esteemed members of the board, a very valid point was brought up about aluminum bases vs. Zinc ones:

1, Aluminum corrodes, or "oxidizes:, like all metals.
2. Oxidized aluminum = aluminum oxide.
3. Aluminum oxide is a popular abrasive, often used in sandblasting.
4. Can you imagine what would happen to a throttle shaft over time, rotating over and over again, poked through corroding aluminum?

~Jason

 

Who cares what they say, as long as they keep talkin', right?

This isn't the 70s, Bill. You can't just release a cheap copy of a part to the general population and bank on folks not communicating about it, etc. This is 21st Century - people can, and do communicate easily, instantly and immediately online. TJJ and links to it consistently come up higher in the list when doing a Google search.

Take the suggestions for improvement to heart, or risk getting your product blacklisted! Get online and have SOMEBODY respond to us, we'd love to hear from you. Put out a public explanation letter. Pretend that they were prototypes and fix 'em... but do something!

This could be a golden opportunity to turn public perception of Speedway around... then again, the cold shoulder towards the community could also lead to plenty of negative opinion - something not so easy to shake off.

Now, cheap products have their place - especially cheap, "fun" items, where you know they're ****, but you get 'em anyway. That's why there's a whole aisle of novelty tire valve caps, door lock knobs, "mood" dome light bulbs and air fresheners in every auto parts store. Unfortunately, a carb is not an "accessory", and if improperly manufactured can lead to folks getting killed.

Nobody wants to have an accident due to a part they saved up for months to buy.

All I've got to say is that PR & R&D people may not be cheaper than a team of lawyers, but the stains they prevent from getting on your reputation upfront are in the long run, a better deal than paying a team of lawyers to launder out your mistakes later.

~Jason

 

Except for the millions of Carter AFB's and Edelbrock clones.
I think most of you guys want the Speedway 97 to fail a test and be known as ****.The carb was tested by a person who restores vintage carbs? No surprise he was critical,ever talk to an AFB rebuilder about Edelbrocks?
Another test would be fair,the carb installed on a engine then driven around the streets.

 

in jeres report he said he couldnt get the engine to idle for a reasonable period of time because it was icing up - how are you going to drive the car if you cannot get the engine to idle?

 

The aluminium you guys are referring to are in the carb's bases, not the bodies themselves.

Most Holley and Carter carbs 2 and 4 BBL carbs bases are aluminium. No issues there, if
so I'd lhave to get rid of my primo running Holley 830 and the Stromberg WWs on the Flathead. So would hundreds of thousands of hot rodders, muscle cars owners and drag racers.

Yes, aluminium conducts heat, but it also helps to vaporize fuel. The 97 bases were cast iron - if old Henry being the tight *** that he was could have had em made in alum to keeps costs down, he would have. If theres too much heat - phenolic spacers fix that problem. Cast iron gets hot too.....it s a non issue.

As mentioned, evaluations conducted without supporting empirical data and real world test results and subsequent evaluation based on facts would be thrown out by the scientific community.

Not questioning Jere's credentials or his expertise OR defending Speedway (???) , but the above is true in any proper testing and evaluation procedure.

NO carb (the UK 97s, Holleys etc) will bolt on without requiring fine tuning for fuel mixtures, max idle vacuum in gear, PV opening point, accelerator pump shot and duration, max throttle open etc. That is a ******** myth. Every car/engine/car/trans/gearing combo will be different (we are not talking about stockers here) and will require the carb to be dialled in properly to suit that combo. There are just too many variables for a carb rebuilder/supplier to account for to enable a carb to be truly BOLT ON as delivered. So the argument that "I bolted it on and it ran like **** " is really lame.....sorry, but thats just how it is. that "bolt on" speil is for people who dont understand carbs and want something thats close - but not dead on.

If a carb rebuilder rebuilt my 97s, bolts em onto a 239 Flathead with a mild Isky Max 1 cam, 7.5:1 CR, std Edelbrock dual, twin point ignition combo.....and tested it saying it ran well, didnt leak and BSFC / A/F ration was dead on then thats great.

Then I take the carbs, bolt em onto my 8.5:1, 286ci, Offy 400 heads with almost 9:1, headers, Winfield SU1A cam, MSD ignition combo will they work the same way ? NO !!

Then add in trans, vehicle weight, gearing, pump shot requirements to get the car moving etc....too many variables. Im sure you see where I am coming from. Some rebuillders ask for this info - but the bulk of them? How many guys bolt on their new carbs and dial them in by synching the bases first, then ***embling them sync the carbs a Uni Syn, tune for max vac***, dial in pump shot etc, then when it runs like ****, blame the "**** carbs" or the rebuilder?

Last, after 25 years in sales and marketing, trust me when I tell you there will be people who have to justify their market/product/living when a threatening compe***ive product comes along that can reduce their livelihoods. Fair enough, but hey - bolt one of them on, attempt to dial it in, DRIVE it in the REAL world, and then.....CAN it if its warrented.

Canning it coz its made in China, is sold by Speedway, does not have a big 97 on its side etc without bolting it on, dialling it in, DRIVING it and THEN saying its a POS is LIGHT YEARS APART.

Anyway, FWIW, 97s carbs are overrated, overpirced and there are better options. Theres areason why Henry onlky used em for a handful of years.

Flame on.....

Rat

 

I read the report, and in an era of politically correct ******** and professional impartiality Jere nailed it. When you are trying to scienticically ****ize ******** you eventually have to tell us what it really is and not just weight the individual componants and hope we draw the proper conclusion. Jere signed the do***ent and he stands by his work. That is more than good enough for me.
Thanks Jere, i wish the government would offer you a job in the treasury dept, we need a few good people in there.

 

I agree. We need more honesty. Not more candy-coated ********. Jere Jobe knows 97's, and if he says its ****, that's good enough for me.

 

I don't see how the paper could be seen as biased, he simply highlights what happens during testing.

a driving test would not make a difference as the thousands of variables (traffic, temp, load)created by driving a vehicle on the road would ensure that you could not test the two carbs in exactly the same conditions

 

[QUOTE a driving test would not make a difference as the thousands of variables (traffic, temp, load)created by driving a vehicle on the road would ensure that you could not test the two carbs in exactly the same conditions[/QUOTE]

Mate - I'm not sure I follow what you are saying?

Are you suggesting that to properly evaluate one (or a pair carbs) that they should'nt be bolted on, dialled in as best as possible and then driven through a MUL***UDE of road conditions?

What better way to evaluate the product that w*** DESGINED to do just that?

Pls explain?

Rat

 

Holy ****... he's right!

~Jason

 

As far as scientific ****ysis vs Jere's report...Someone famous Judge said "I can't define ****, but I know it when I see it"

 

WOW, I would love to hear from guys that have used them. Have YOU had the carbs in hand and apart? Have YOU tested them on the street or on a motor?
It's great when some guy tells you what you need and use when they don't have a car or built one or driven one, I'm not directing this to Jere.
I respect Jere and his test results. I hear he's the man when it come to carbs. I have to say in the back of my mind this guy sells rebuilt carbs and the compe***ors carb how can this be bias??
I have one of "them" on my car and it's working fine as of now. Is ice forming on the carb, I don't know but it's forming on the front axle ,fenders and my hands because it's snowing outside. I haven't taken her out for the all day ride yet.
I would love to hear from someone else that bought one of "them" carbs to see if any problems or not.
As for V-8 judging standards were the New one will p***? Wow, I guess my new Walker Radiator would too