Hello, I am going to open the flood gates! I have seen and studied a number of ways to put juice brakes on a model A ford. Front part is no problem. The back is a different story. I liked some things about each way and others not. I came up with this mocked up plan. It starts from the dual master cylinder and goes straight back. To do it this way I would have to rotate the backing plates about 18 to 20 degrees backwards. It clears everything OK (It will be fixed so that none of the lines are rubbing on anything) and will not get "pinched" if the spring goes up and down. I will switch the direction of the spring perches so I can take them off if one gets damaged. Everything is hidden behind the axle so if you are looking at it from the back you wouldn't see it (except near the plates). I put everything on top of the TT including the Residule check valve for three reasons: 1) it would be easy to see if I had any leaks 2)easy to repair 3) it tucked away and not as easy to see. I didnt like running along the rail. One of those "type A guys" who likes everything even. The one thing that bothers me is will it be hard to bleed the brakes if the wheel cylinders are turned 18 to 20 degrees? I want three things: 1)safe 2)easy to work on 3)clean look Trying to be a little different. I have hit a cross road and am at a "dead stop". I really could use some positive feedback. This is not my first time running juice brakes, but it is my first time putting them on a car that was not designed for them. Thanks for your time. Marty
Depends on the drilled hole in the cyl, and where it is. Not all cyls are the same as to where the hole is in the bore. One off topic example is on those front load street sweepers. They have backing plates at about that angle at the larger front wheels, and are impossible to bleed at the screw. The old timers bled with drums off, pulling back the upper boot, and slipping a very thin feeler gauge past the wheel cyl piston to let the air out.
Like F&J says, if the bleeder hole is not at the very apex of the cylinder, they will not bleed correctly. I suppose you could also fill the cylinders before installing them and then bleed the brake line before you tighten it down. My buddy does this when replacing front to rear lines, and although it isn't foolproof, it does work, if you do it correctly.
A few things. I dont understand why you turned the backing plates back 20 degrees. With a little grinding they bolt right on and clear the Model A spring hangers. Whats your master from? Looks like a disc drum master from a GM A body. Might want to use a drum drum master. Alot of these have built in residual pressure valves. Why not run those brake lines right down the inside of the rear bones then up the the wheel cyl. Thats how Henry did it. Looks like your spring is gonna hit it when it flexes. I think your maing it harder than it needs to be. Rob
Hello, I havent drilled anything yet. Everything is still stock. I was reading where everyone says you have to tilt them 16 degress froward to clear the spring perch. I agree with that last post. I didnt see why I couldnt just bolt them right on . There didnt seem to be much difference in the clearance. I looked at a number of different master cylinders. A number of people on the hamb recommeneded the one from Speedway (and so did they) for drum to drum. I went to a number of stores like Napa. Most of them werent helpful or even knew what a residual check valve was. I wanted them built in and they said "no one they had made them with a check valve built in". There used to be a day when you needed some help they had people who really knew there stuff with these older cars. Nothing is set in stone. I had some old brake lines sitting around and was thinking outside the box a little. Thanks for the input. I can take the criticism. Marty
Right on Marty, Whats worked for me in the exact situation is a 65 Mustang non-power drum/drum master cyl. A little grinding on the spring perch mount area to clear the wheel cyl. and your set. I mount the master in the same spot as you, and use the stock A pedals with a new arm welded on to run the pushrod. Rob
OK. I worked in the garage today and set the drums to stock position. That looks better. I took a piece of scrap brake line and bent it out of the wheel cylinder and over the spring perch. It's tight, but should work fine. I will post some photos of the new lay out. I am also going to buy a master cylinder with the residual check valves built in.
Just found your thread. Congrats on figuring it out man. I used a '67 Chevy truck drum-drum master Cyl. on my A. I'm super happy with it.
Rotated mine upside down and side to side. Worked perfectly. Got pics on a thread here, can find it if interested.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=677808 This was just posted for tech week. Bleeds the brakes in "reverse". Looks like a good way to solve the bleeding problem for the cylinders that are mounted clocked back for perch clearance. Might just have to clamp the shoes to ensure the cylinders are closed as much as possible so they fill correctly. Worth a shot.
Old timers often installed the rear backing plates upside down to make it easier to do the job. You can turn the cylinders over to get the bleeder back up top.
This and what pasadena said will work. My recollection, did it over 50 years ago, is that when you rotate wheel cylinder, bleeder at top, one of the mounting holes was slightly off. This method will have emergency brake cable at top. as siad will work perfectly! Good luck and keep us posted.
Hello, What always worried me about putting the wheel cylinders at the bottom of the backing plate was your line is fully exposed to the road and if something were to come up hit it while you where driving, you would lose your brakes. I have seen many people do it that way and they seem to be happy, but I would rather keep it on top. Doesnt seem safe to me. I would rather have it away from the road and protected as much as possible. Marty
The Jalopy Journal
