Would either a VW pancake 4 or a Corvair flat 6 be legal for a HAMBster?? They are air cooled and there would be no worries about radiators etc. And I happen to have a Corvair engine that is just sitting..
I've looked at this route. I don't see it as being in the spirit of the bug. I can see the advantage and would love to do it. I could easily see 120+ hp from a flat four with pre 62 gear and with ****** all weight. But, they just don't look the part, and the spirit is what this cl*** is all about. Have fun without seeing how far you can take the rules, it'll be more enjoyable.
No mitch, I was thinking of adapting it to a C/R 4 speed and running it up front. you could cover the whole engine except the barrels and heads sticking out the sides of the body.. just day dreaming.....
Realistically, if you look at the rules, it allows them. In the "Spirit" to most people would mean something currently setting in front of you at this moment that could be transposed back in time to 1962 or before --and appear believable. As far as racing goes back then, airplane engines like 12 cylinder Allisons to 6 cylinder Rangers were being tried. Engines out of tractors and everything else was being tried too. Also, (and more importantly IMHO) ...the whole HA/GR cl*** is more of an exhibition thing where 'the Cars are the Stars' --and winning rounds is not what this cl*** is about. I have pe***ioned Ryan and awiting his reply to allow me to run a Gemsa powered Model B banger engine in one. I personally view it as "in the spirit" because I have a copy of the Western Racing Equipment catalog from August of 1961 that shows the Gemsa Trophy head was available then. Reading between the lines, it also substantiates there were racers using a 4 Banger Model A/B engine during this time as evidenced by what was being offered/manufactured then. Below is a copy of the catalog. Specifically take a look at Page 5. Page 1 Page 2 Page 3 Page 4 Page 5 Page 6 Page 7 Page 8 Page 9 Page 10 Page 11 Page 12
pushing the rules to their limits is totally In The Spirit... some of you guys will follow them to the T, but some will be pushing to see how far they can get without breaking rules. in the end, its all about fun... we all have different interpretations of what FUN is.. no one can possibly tell me how to have a good time, only i know how to accomplish that. if you have a gemsa headed 4 banger, more power to ya... ardun topped flathead block? cool... air cooled motor? *****in... i say roll with it.
Seeing your comment about an Ardun, ...and reviewing the last line of Rule 12, what is the "good news"? Is an Ardun allowed??
i dont know anymore about that than you. no, my comment was merely a generalisation about motor combo's and the spirit of it all. ill freely admit that i wouldnt want to go up against a blatantly more superior car in a heads up race... it just wouldnt be fun at that point.
Rule says no overhead valve V8's that pretty muce rules the ardun out,doesn't it. As far as the cars being exhibition only,not in this part of the country This year we raced for money in Tulsa. Next year there is is going to be a HA/GR series that will consist of 5 or six races in Okla and mabe Kans and Mo. It will pay a purse at each race and you aquire points for the end of the season.
I think a lot depends on what you consider the "spirit of the Bug." To some it apparently implies a spirit of ingenuity. To others it means building something with the appearance and technology of the earliest "rail jobs." I figure to most of us there is a bit of both in our notions of the spirit, but I lean toward the latter. I also think there needs to be a practical spirit of fairness. Ardun heads and 12 port Jimmies are beyond the spirit of fairness, but I don't think there is a head out there that can give an unfair advantage to model A or B engine. As for the cutoff year, '62 is way beyond the "spirit of the Bug" in my eyes, but I'm practical enough to realize there are engines that are fundamentally the same as earlier engines and are much easier to get one's hands on. However, VWs and Corvairs are not in my spirit of the Bug. So there! And no, my project is still not underway. I did think about it earlier and walked out into the garage.
[quote="Doc" Parsons]What's this about 5 or 6 races in Okla, maybe Ks. and Mo. someone let me know[/quote] Yep! It's a Hiny deal.
See this is where I believe the Flathead and Jimmie six's have the advantage. Most flathead 6's you might get 260 to 270 cu in's out of them. But there is the Hudson Hornet motor 308 cu in's. but too a flathead. Now what I mean is $$$$$. Where do they stop.where is the limit on the amount you can spend.Such as, Bore, Stroke, Balance. Port and polish. Relieving, etc. Now if your rules stated Stock bore, (limit to 030 over) Stock stroke.no roller cams or lifters,flat tappet only,etc. But you can take a Ford flathead out to almost 300" with no problem. That is if you want to spend $5.000.00 for a motor. and someone will. So what would a guy that has a Lil' 170 Ford Falcon motor chances be with A Mr.Donald Trump. type car.Example:: I have a friend that runs The dry lakes and salt beds, He has a 365 cu in flathead(F600 Ford truck motor, Approx 600 hp) that he wants to sell. Now would it be fair for me to run this against Bret and his Gemsa 4 banger??? NO! So where are you guys putting the brakes on at.Where is your limit?? Cubic In's??? $$$?? or what??.. Limit it so Joe Blow can afford to go racing as well as Mr. Got Rocks. and on a even basis.
remember... the HA/GR is a NON-COMPE***IVE cl*** for the HAMB Drags you can throw NASA money at it and it dont make a lick of difference. there aint no ladder, no winner. its all for fun. and besides... how much power can you really put to a set of 6" wide bias plys anyway? thats the leveler.
Well !! I'll tell ya what, I've been in the racing game since 1953. I've owned and built more cars than most people have. I now have (built) a pretty wicked lil fiat topolino. BUT! I wouldn't want to go race a NTF car every week. That would not be FUN. See my point.
Well, ...I don't know about no 365 inch flathead F600 truck but let's use your example of the 7X Hudson w/ Twin-H vs. my "Gemsa headed banger". I kinda think it IS fair to run both side-by-side. Yeah, I'll probably get beat but the photo-ops. and the pit interviews from the spectators afterwards will be worth it all!! If you go to the AARA website, you will see where I already field several race cars in exhibition racing. Some people that race MUST win at all costs, --and if you are a racer like that, then HA/GR probably will not (...or should not) be the cl*** for you. For me personally, --I like the nostalgia ambiance where the car is the star and not the driver. In the AARA races, aggressive driving or at***udes will put you on the trailer headed out the gate faster than anything. Therefore with this mindset I do not have to worry about the guy beside me doing something stupid that could put me or my car in jeopardy. When that type of pressure is off, most racers find it much more fun to go out and drive their vintage car while re-living the feel of what it was like during the time. Something to notice. At the Sydney event recently, the buzz in the stands was about the HA/GR cars and how much everyone wanted one. In Top Fuel or other pro cl*** at any current NHRA event, the Driver's (or the Crew Chiefs) are the stars and the cars are just there. In the HA/GR venue (or other exhibition-type vintage racing), it is the opposite. People want the driver or crew to move out of the way so they can get a picture of the car. I am saddened to hear of Mr. Mac's statement about being a "purse" at some 'HA/GR series' events. My initial comment would be to ask "WHY"?? Are they that broke financially they need the money? It is not my call but to me that opens up the opportunity for antagonism, cheating, and back-biting a****st certain entrants. Your worry about cubic-dollars entering into the cl*** is valid when there is prize money at stake. This phenomenon has been proven many times in the past in all types of sports. Watch the Spirit of the Bug when all of that 'krap' begins!! So now when the cheating starts (or the perception of cheating starts), it requires for someone to inspect more thoroughly whereas in exhibition racing, each entrant in the cl*** kinda self-polices each other's cars. Also, as rules are pushed, ...friendships begin to diminish while egos become a factor, rivalries ensue, and feelings start to get hurt. When racing for points and/or money, greed sometimes takes front-seat to camaraderie!! 'Thingie', I will tell you that from experience, you will always have an issue of entries that have better funding or resources available to them over what you have BUT if you build your car to the best of your abilities and place your focus on why you wanted to build the car in the first place, ...then I believe you will have just as much fun if you get beat in 1st round by D. Trump Investments' car or whether you go to the final round. The 'ride' is only going to last for 13+/- seconds --but the conversations (whether you win or lose) about the car will go on for hours/days.
I say why not run the VW or Corvair motor? As long as it falls into Ryans rules laid out and pre-62 equipment, then go for it. I thought the "spirit" of the bug was to build a low dollar dragster with stuff that you probably had laying around to go out and have fun??? I mean, we're all handicapped by the 6" bias ply tires and normally aspirated mills so to speak. The inspiration and creativity is what's gonna make this HA/GR cl*** so much fun. I mean, you guys are all gonna be watching the back of GMC Bubbas Jimmy powered hamber anyways...
I have thought SERIOUSLY about running a CADDY Flathead 346 in our car. No, it wwould NOT be as compe***ive as a Ford flatty (it weighs 900 pounds) or the Big Sixes, but it WOULD be a lot of FUN.
Brent...AMEN! Myself and 4 friends are building a 321 Jimmy powered HA/GR dragster and it will have long aluminum rods, custom JE pistons, custom built rocker arm/shaft ***embly, lots of compression, etc. and I'll tune it on the dyno. However, the main reason for the above is because 5 friends are sharing the expenses and all the machine shop/dyno facilities are at my disposal......but, mainly we're doing it because it makes us smile when we see the HA/GR's run. To hell with being compe***ive, I just want to build a nice piece of equipment to run down the strip. I don't even care who wins! And I don't think purses are necessary.....lets just have some fun. I think the 4-banger would be super cool. I'm sure it would get a lot more attention than our car even though it wasn't as fast. Guys, lets all just do our thing and forget about bending the rules to gain a slight edge. Ron Golden (Goldenri@aol.com)
What is happening to this cl*** is just part of the natural evolution of racing. I have seen it many times in all kinds of racing. Some guys will build a car cause they have the parts and some time...some build for ego reasons, but they usually are short lived in the sport and they move on to the next deal that will feed their ego...and others will just do it for the pure fun of doing it and that whole guy thing. Throwing a bunch of money at a car does not guarantee that you will have fun...neither does building a car for $1.98. It really comes down to at***ude and what you want to get back from your investment in time and money. The guy that has to win at any cost to have fun...it is going to cost him a lot of money to win and have fun because he has to toss more money than the next guy that has to win. The guy that is in it just to have fun...well all he has to do is just show up and make laps. The guys who are just looking for fun will have their day too. They will be racing a car with a performance advantage and it will break and he will get to sail on past for the win. Those are the Kodac moments. The rest of the time it is just about fun...man its got to be better than staying home and mowing the lawn or taking the kids to the mall. This is the third year of this deal if I have been reading right. It sounds like it has already evolved and changed a lot from where it started. It will be fun to see where it ends up at the end of this year...something new or maybe back where it started out. I guess we will see. My two cents...worth two cents.
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