As alot of you know from my repeated post with questions that I am planning a swap to a 302 HO and was just wondering.... Im going to have to put a new intake/carb/pulleys etc on the engine anyway so how hard would it be to have a cam put in the engine while i had it taken apart? What I'm thinking is I would like more Horsepower (cause its gonna ba a hotrod right?) and I like the lopey sound of an engine with a race cam in it. would this engine need a certain size cam? I always hear of people wanting a 3/4 cam...I dont know much about these things but thought maybe someone could give me some advise of do's and dont's. Have you guys upgraded the cam in yours? thanks
you'll get tired of the high lift / longer duration "performance" camshaft real fast. Lousy gas mileage is one big reason. My humble opinion is go with an RV high torque cam or a Comp " Thumper" and get your rumpity-rump noise from a set of Porters in the exhaust.
Hey camps, if you want a REAL cool idle and better power, go to compcams.com and check out the "Thumper cam" package. Gives the neatest lope at idle,(sounds dangerous!!) but gives full performance throughout the rpm range. If the engine is to be reworked anyway, replacing the cam AND lifters(always change together!) is easy. Add a nice dual plane intake( if it's carb'd) and set of shorty headers and you'll scare the skirts off the girls when you ride by!! Have fun!
If you have the 302 HO from a mustang Id keep the Serp setup and not go to vbelt unless thats the look you want... But if removing intake anyway...replace your rockers with 1.6 rollers and you will be taking off the timing cover and replace your double roller timing chain with new one.. Then if you do or dont want to replace your stock valve springs...is the question...if you have stock pistons your are limited also..and then also how much you want to spend... you can go old school and just put a E-303 ford cam in it or the Trickflow stage 1 cam in it...even though its best to put new springs alot of people dont...just dont go to far past 5000rpms or if you have more money you can look at anderson motorsports cams..they are more up to date as far as performance and they specify what pistoms/heads/rockers you are going to use and what rpm range you want etc... and if 5spd or auto and what rear gears your using... Its a science to match everything properly...
You asked for high performance cam "do's and don'ts". Here's mine...don't. A stock 5.0 or 351 has plenty of beans to haul your Ford around without jacking with the cam. I'd humbly suggest that you resist the "monkey see, monkey do" mentality when it comes to speed equipment. Go with the simplest carburetor change-over you can find, get the car running and enjoy it for a while. Then, if it's not fast enough, pull the motor and make some changes. From what you've shared so far it's clear that this is your first rodeo. Take some hard-earned advice from an old-timer: learn to ride the tame horses first, there'll be plenty of time for the bulls later on. My $.02
Yes I plan to keep the serpentine belt and pullys if i can i didnt know if i would be able to. By the way any suggestions on the right Intake manifold and carb setup? I am thinking edelbrock intake with Holley or demon carb...anything i should think about to make a desicion on which one? thanks for you guys input
A edelbrock performer with a AVS Edelbrock carb would be good...that way easy for linkages...also the avs is easier to tune without opening it up... 600cfm max on a 302
I just checked them out on jegs and there are multiple models of each. Do you know what model numbers I would need for a 5.0HO? thanks
5.0 HO came factory with forged, didin't they ?? Also, reusing the roller lifters with a new cam isn't unheard of. The cam lobe is ground without the offset for a flat lifter. Rollers don't mate with the lobe same as a flat tappet. Also, you'll never get the full benefit of all the cams, manifolds and carbs discussed without a good set of heads anyways. A 4100 4 bbl Ford carb is easy to work on and less expensive than either a Edelbrock ( Carter AFB ) or other brands.
As missysdad said, DON'T. Just a cam change is a joke. You should do the heads, intake, headers, etc, etc, etc. I always use the KISS program (keep it simple stupid. Years ago I did up a sbc for my 54 p/u. Cam, heads, intake, carb, headers, converter, and so on. After the 1st year, took all that **** off, put in a very mild cam, stock converter, etc, and made a real nice driver out of it. JMHO
Well I do rebuild engines and anyone that asks me about a cam swap needs to tell me a few things first . What are you going to use the engine for ? daily driver , towing , performance , hot street , drag race and so on ? What rear gears do you have or what gears do you plan to use ? Do you have a standard trans or an auto trans ? What tires are you going to use ? Are you going to keep the same heads you have now ? Are you going to do anything to the heads you have now ? How many miles is on the engine right now ? Do you have a carb and intake yet ? Are you leaving the ignition as stock or going to upgrade that also ? As for an intake and carb , A good dual plane intake is all you need . Carb , I would use NOTHING bigger than a 600 cfm but would look toward something smaller . I would suggest a Holley 570 Street Avenger . Heck a 500 cfm would be plenty with what you have right now and even with a mild cam . So you can use what you want to but most people that don't understand an engine and how it works with a cam and carb upgrade usually , ALWAYS use a cam way too big for the use they will need and a carb that is too big . Just remember this one thing , Bigger is not better when you have a stock engine with stock heads ! As you say you want that loapy sound and more HP . If you have an extra $4000 to $5000 extra to spend I can build you an engine that will suit your needs BUT you will also have to install a bigger convertor if you have an auto trans and if you have a stock T-5 the torque will break that trans sooner or later . That loapy sound as you put it means a lot of duration . That means bigger valves and better air flow . You heads can't handle that . If that is really all you want then have an engine built for you . If not take the engine you have now and take the top end off with heads and sell to the s**** yard . Now get better flowing heads with bigger valves and then think about that cam you want after you rebuild the short block . The ppistons are fine to use IF you can get away with a block hone . One other thing you haven't told us yet , how many miles is on that engine ????? Jim
Well said retrojim Hell if still good oil pressure on the 302 and around 100k just get the trickflow twisted wedge stage 1 top end kit...dont have to change or cut pistons with that setup...just get the biggest headers you can...1 5/8 at least not 1 1/2 like sanderson...1 3/4 would be best for naturally aspirated but shorty 1 3/4 cost alot
There is a saying" Horsepower costs money,how fast do you want to go?" The 5.0 H.O. is going to be a big improvement over the 6 cyl even in stock form,the E303 cam is not a bad way to go and will work with your existing valve train,swapping heads is a "good bang for the buck" it all depends on your budget.
If you do indeed have a 5.0 HO motor, they are a pretty good performer, 5.0 Mustangs were mid 14 sec. 1/4 mile cars at around 100mph from Ford. If your engine is in decent shape, just swap to a carb'd intake, put an '85 Mustang Duraspark dizzy in, change the oil pan/ pickup to a front sump and go. If you are unsure of your own ability to figure out how healthy your engine is, perhaps a crate motor would be a good option for you? Might even get a warranty with it! So my recipe: -decent 5.0L HO engine, 87-93 vintage (92 up pistons are hypereutectic, not forged) -Edelbrock Performer RPM -600cfm carb (def. not bigger as the carb won't like the EFI cam anyway) -85 Mustang (carb'd) distributor (Duraspark ign, has correct gear for hyd. roller cam) -front sump pickup and pan Should be good for about 240hp and get good mileage as well.
Thanks guys for the info, I'm going over all this in my mind and trying to make a decision on whats best for me. I feel stupid when it comes to Engines/compression ratio and the like...In my field Fire/safety I feel comfortable because Ive been doing it for over 14 yrs but with this I am way outta my league and it ****s! LoL But I'm sure with you guys help I will get through it and learn alot on the trip. Thanks everyone
You really don't need high compression to make good HP . When you get to 10 to 1 compression that's it on pump gas and even then 9.5 to 1 is safer . You still haven't told me how many miles is on this engine ? I would put it on an engine stand and pull the oil pan and take a look at you center main bearing to see how bad they are . Same thing with your rod bearings . It's a waste of good money to install a new cam in used cam bearings and then install different heads with a high mileage engine with rod and main bearing that are either worn out or close to . If you start beefing up the top end , then you better have a good bottom end . You don't have to worry about the pistons unless you need a re-bore . Just install new rings , have the crank polished or turned and put in new bearings . That's only $250 . Then a set of metrics rings is another $100+ and you will have a good bottom end to build from . Get a standard oil pump and not a HV pump . Don't just stick a better set of flowing heads , cam , intake and carb and expect it to last with you beating the snot out of it and you will . Doing a 1/2 *** job is ******* money down the drain . If you are going to invest in the top 1/2 of the engine then just save your money and do it the correct way . That engine might not worth using until you look inside ! Mileage doesn't mean the engine is good . If the last owner never changed the oil and beat the hell out of the engine , even if it had 65,000 miles it would need a complete rebuild . I have seen it before . If you lived with in driving distance , I can build you an engine fairly cheap . About $3000 can get you 300 HP . HP is very easy to make if you put the right parts together . Jim
Retro Jim, I havent bought an engine yet I'm waiting to figure out what its going to cost in order to do everything I want. (I may have to sell my new 4-wheeler to afford it but what the Hey! LoL) What I'm looking to do is get an engine that is reliable,around 300Hp, Good beefy lopey sound, with alot of polished aluminum that i can put in my car for car shows and weekend drives. I really wont be driving real long distances so gas mileage really isnt a factor its more of a have fun at the car shows and spin the tires a little kinda car. I work outta town alot so going long distances and sight seeing in it just wont happen due to my work schedule (Not sayin I wouldnt love to do that!) But maybe this will give yall a little better idea of what I'm tryin to accomplish. thanks
JeffB2 has given me alot of good part numbers for parts that I could use on the engine and I like how they will look and all so if I can just get Retro jim to slap me one together and send it to me fedex for under $300 I'd be set! LoL Just kiddin
Yea I can build you one but I will never slap one together , just kidding with you . I know Jeff pretty good . We are internet buddy's for a couple years now I think . Jeff have given me some good places to score some parts too . Getting an engine to build around where I live is easy . I have p***ed up 2 roller 302 this week already and they still run ! Intakes for $100 or less and so on . Parts are very easy for me to find especially the HUGE Ford show in Carsile , Pa that am a vendor at . I get good deals every year up there . So good parts are not hard to come by where I live . Heck I still have a nice set of 289 heads sitting on the shelf ready to be reworked . Those are the good compression heads that have tons of low end torque which is great for a street car . You can get 1.90 intakes in those heads . That's what I have for my 302 build . The less flow in heads the better the low end torque . The more flow the better the mid and upper rpm range . So all you do is figure out the flow you need for the driving you do . I know where there are a sweet set of Cast Sr. heads are for $750 but I am sure I can get them cheaper . Now that is a great set of heads ! Jim
you can always do what im doing...im just swapping the efi stuff for carb and drive it till you need to rebuild...or want to...with headers and the right (tuned carb) setup should be around 240 easy...I picked up some gt40 heads and im porting them myself and will have them rebuilt and with a anderson cam (will work with stock pistons/gt40 heads and 1.7 rockers) will be easily at 300...you can get rebuilt gt40s for $450 add 40hp and use same headers... but like retro said either get a motor to drive or if any rebuild just rebuild... hell you can get a rebuilt shortblock for 800.
one thing to keep in mind, if your used to driving a f.i. car daily and you put a cam in a carbed car. you might not like the cold nature and such as it totaly diffrent. unless you get a well tuned carb and perfectly set choke there harder to keep running when cold.
Thanks for the info my55fairlane and Oldladysmad, I decided to get retrojim to build me one with some parts jeff is sending me. I think this may be the best way for me to go with somone who knows how to rebuild one the way it is supposed to be versus using someone around here that just throws them together. Its weird but for some reason people down here in my neck of the woods dont seem to take the time to do things right and if you find someone that does he knows he's good and charges an arm and a leg along with your first born! When we get the total list of what he's doing to it I will post it and that way you guys can tell me what you think and a guess on HP! I think this is going to be fun...something Ive wanted to do for a long time but never had the means or courage to try. Thanks guys
well i just drove my freshly built 302 to ft worth about 30 miles and it was way more than i expected. once it was on the highway i hardly had to touch the gas. its a 302 out of a 74 maverick, bored 60 over 351 heads 270 cam with .500 duration. c4 trans and maverick rear end with 3.25 gears. it sounds tough as nails and was very happy around 70 and i was seriously not giving it much gas. i drove it to a guy that is going to tune the engine up for me and fix some starter carb issues im having so i can make it to austin for the roundup this week.
def give a update...I have to reconsider what my setup will be since im going carb and not efi..cause I already have a 9.5" stall for a aod trans that I was going to put in a 93 mustang.. so got to figure out a new camshaft
The Jalopy Journal
