Customs Keep the original front suspension?

I have the body off the Kellison and I am considering what to with the original Studebaker Hawk suspension.
I could rebuild whats there now, seems OK to me or...
A few people have suggested installing a Mustang 2 front suspension. Seems like a LOT of fab work to get this done?

Any ideas or suggestion??
I have attached pics of what I am working with.

 

are you building a traditional Kellison, or some modern version of one? By the looks of the stuff on the engine, it looks like you're not really into old stuff very much (yet).

In your position, I would keep the Studebaker stuff, and make the engine look more like a 60s 327 would look.

If you decide to change the suspension, please find something more appropriate than Pinto junk.

 

I prefer to use the original suspension but have been told it wont handle very well. I think 50s Studebaker would handle fine for me. This how I bought the car and will begin removing some of the modern looking components on the engine.

 

No, it won't handle very well, it's a 60s custom built sports car using 50s p***enger car suspension. Just like early Corvettes don't handle well

I think you have the right at***ude to do it right, and you'll have a neat car when you're done. Try not to let it snowball, and try not to listen to your friends who say you have to build a 2022 Kellison. You don't.

 

Spring rate, sway bar, good bushings. Feel free to get creative, the existing springs have a diameter, height, coil thickness. Go to speedway site and you can search by these parameters for very cost effective coil springs. I can't tell how the sway bar attaches now from the pics. Many of them are pretty close if you're willing to make new frame attachment points. There's modular type sway bar end links that let you change out just the bar, for different ratios.

Rotors and calipers can be upgraded to more easily available stuff, wheel bolt pattern and rotor offset are the main considerations, caliper brackets can be made in a drill press from flat plate if there's no offset in the bracket required. Just about any modern caliper blows away what was available then ( todays minivans have more capable brakes than performance cars of the past).
From what I see Studebaker uses 5x4.5" Wheel bolt pattern, ford brakes are good starting point, ranger / explorer that still used 15" wheels.

I think the OG suspension retained and perform well. Find out what parts you can get and work around what you can't.

 

Yes - same frame as the Avanti - look up some 60's road tests on those - they had disk brakes a year before the Vette's did in 1963 - 1962 for the Avanti. Disk Brake set up is a bolt on and not to hard to find - would also go with the 1965/66 factory Chevy mounts to that frame that were use as well.

 

Mustang 2 (pinto) front suspension was not a great suspension it was a cheap *** car. But it was modified to fit a lot of cars and caught on in the after market. Save your money and a lot of work rebuild and upgrade the stock stuff.

 

Probably worth a phone call to Myers Studebaker. They’re very helpful people, and if anyone would know the tricks and upgrades they would. As well a rebuild parts.

A lot of people think 50’s cars don’t handle well, but many are ok properly maintained and set up.
http://www.myersstudebaker.com/

 

It should be noted that what the OP has isn't 'stock'... Someone has switched it to R&P steering. So whether or not that's an improvement is yet to be determined.

@MCooke , sent you a PM....

 

What Bill said, changing to the off topic ifs is not upgrading. Those cars didn't handle. Tradition means driving an old car because you enjoy the way an old car drives.

 

Which handles better, a Hawk or that well known sports car, the Pinto? I don't think BMW let alone Ferrari used the Ford Pinto as their suspension and handling benchmark!

 

I think you've already answered your own question. Huge following on Studes and Avantis and a ton of info on upgrading what you have already. A quick Google search yielded a few bolt on options for disc brakes, some recipes for different springs from late model GM, sway bar additions, and then the rack & pinion thing. Read something about shorter steering arms as well to make the steering quicker. I enjoyed going down the the Studebaker rabbit hole.
The way the rack is mounted kinda looks off to me though. Originally, you would have had this bellcrank deal with the tie rods running parallel-ish to the A-arms angle:


I think I would be mounting the rack closer to the suspension crossmember, instead of the engine crossmember, and trying to get those tie rods longer than the lower A-arms and closer to being parallel with them ...like this:


I believe it would require a rear steer centered rack...like out of a GM Cavalier.

 

1. Installing a Mustang II front suspension will gain you little to nothing over the Stude suspension. LOTSA work for no gain. Unless you are going road racing ! The Stude suspension is actually stronger as far as pot holes and errant tire stops go !

2. Adding a rack and pinion to the Stude suspension is a lot of work for little gain. Plus unless you do your math homework, it MAY even end up worse than the stock stuff.
Just make sure that you use the "Saginaw" steering box, NOT the "Ross" box.
Making the "bump steer" better isn't guaranteed by adding a rack and pinion.

3. As of this writing, I believe all of the parts required to rebuild the Stude suspension can be bought new.

4. Just add a midsize GM (Chevelle, Monti Carlo, etc.) front anti-sway bar to the front and a bar to the rear of the car. A 1-1/8" diameter bar will really help, along with about a 3/4" to 7/8" bar in the back.

Mike

 

If that rack and pinion is mounted permanently, it's way out of align..
It should be tucked right in behind the crossmember..
The rack inner ball pivots should be the same spacing/plain as the inner suspension joints of the lower suspension arm, and the steering arms should be on the same plain, both vertically and horizontally, as the lower arm/joints, so when the suspension moves up and down, all the components move in the same arc..
Hope all that makes sense..

 

The reason the MII suspension is widely used is because it is inexpensive, compact, easily adapted to a wide range of vehicles, relatively robust, has a relatively good rack and pinion steering system, and disc brakes.

Not much of the original parts are used anymore, but it has become the basis of what is now an iconic hot rod front suspension, like it or not. It’s better than the ill fitting Camaro front clips that were in vogue for a decade or two.

Having said that, it’s not traditional and is somewhat verboten here.

Use the original Stude suspension to the extent possible, king pins and all.

 

My advice is similar to what has already been said. Keep the Stude front suspension and rebuild it with new bushings and a kingpin kit. I would consider upgrading the front sway bar with one from a V8 Lark, or as has been suggested, a Camaro bar. However, the front frame rails on you car appear to be shortened. If so, there may be nowhere to attach another type of bar.
The steering is where this car needs work. The set-up on the steering rack is all wrong, don't ever drive it this way. If you do decide to keep it R&P then you need a Cavalier rack, like the one shown if post #12. These have the center tie rod attachment and allow the use of the stock tie rods. However, with that set-up you lose turning radius. Also, I don't believe manual Cavalier racks are available any more.
If it were mine, I would put Stude steering gear back in it. As suggested above, I would hunt around for a Saginaw steering box as opposed to a Ross box. Your engine has considerable setback, so perhaps the steering box needs to be set back as well. If so, you would need a long reach rod. The rest of the parts should be easy to find. The worst part about the Stude set-up is the bell crank pivot. People forget to lube them and they wear out and get sloppy.

 

Rear steer rack, I don't know about that. Can you imagine the oversteer? I would mount that in the front to eliminate the oversteer and the overly sensitive feel the rear steer has. That said, if I was racing, I would prefer the rear steer. They feel the best right after they are set up, trouble is it doesn't last very long usually two or three hours. Once the outside, car and tire temps change so does the alignment.

There are cars out today that use only KPI and have zero caster and camber. The rack is mounted in the center of the of the spindle. I think the Audi is like that.

After reading your text over. I would keep this car stock. You have to admit, that front suspension is very interesting. Thats a really cool car too..