In keeping with Overspray's latest dissertation on painters being brand *****s , what are your thoughts on Kirker primers? Smart shoppers always sends me all sorts of info on Kirker and on paper it looks good so I'm thinking I might give it a shot. Keeping in mind that I'm used to using HOK epoxy primer only, what can I expect out of this urethane? I know the differences between urethane and epoxy, I'm just looking for fill capabilities and ease of sanding. I'm currently picking away at one of my own cars (I NEVER experiment with primers on customer cars) and I have HOK on the shelf, but this is half the price... $66ish for a one gallon setup. Am I being cheap here or is it worth a shot? Anyone have some other products that I should sniff out?
I'm no painting expert but I used both their Enduro prime (epoxy) and Perfect prime (high build). I have no complaints at all . It sands real easy . The price was good. I got mine from autobodytoolmart.com. I am shooting Sherwin Williams over it and have not had any comptability issues. Todd
Hey Bill, The Kirker primers ain't bad bang for the buck! I've always been gunshy of "shop brand" paint products, given that if they take a **** you're out the material costs plus the labor,too, but I've yet to be bitten by Kirker. I can't say if the product we can buy in "The Peoples Republic of Kalifornia" is what's available in your area, but it ain't bad. S****ey Devils C.C. "Spending A Nation Into Generational Debt Is Not An Act Of Comp***ion!"
I too dumb to know "good" paint from "bad'... I painted my Peterbilt with Kirker and it looks good considering who painted it.
I have used various Kirker finishing products for many years. I would not have done so if they didn't give great results. I see no decrease in quality compared to PPG, Dupont and so on. Realistic prices and excellent results. Plus, the guys at Kirker are super knowledgeable and helpful.
Anybody else? I'm looking to use kirker on my car as well. I've only read good things, but never used it before.
It's on my 32 and was on my 53 before. The only advise I have is "all single stage urethane fades" period. No matter what you use, if it doesn't have clear, it will fade in the sun. I have used gallons of their primers with no problems.
Is it worth 75 bucks to change from something that you know works to a maybe youll have to redo? Thats what i always have to think of when im tempted to cut a corner on costs. Also so the same thing i used to tell my customers. And on the long term, shrinking characterisics...I did a 68 442 for a guy and he insisted on cheap everything b/c they worked just as good(autobody master clear and primer, omni base) It didnt work bad, clear buffs like a dream, but i ended up buying the car and 2 years later the clear which was cut down to gl*** looked like ****. It shrank out and was terribly grainey. So take it for what its worth.
I haven't had any vehicles come back. Kirker has been in the paint business for about 100 years (110 actually) and they know their stuff. It's all I've shot for the last four years
If you have something that works great and you have never had a problem , then why change to something else . No matter what I am using , if it works great without any problems then I will not change unless I have a problem . What something costs shouldn't be your determining factor epically when you are in business ! When in business you can't take that chance because your lively hood counts on it ! I am sure there are cheaper paints & primers that work as good as what you are using , but I would test it on my car or a customers car ! I always ask people at car shows who did your paint job , how long have you had it , what do you think of it and what brand & color of paint was it . That is where you will get a honest answer on the paint job !
WOW!! It worked. I got some thinking and some good discussion to come out of my little comment. Keep it coming. I'm still learning, too. Here's some more to discuss in the lower priced lines. http://www.tat-co.com/ http://www.rubber-seal.com/about.asp http://www.montprod.com/images/2009_Standard_WEB_Brochure.pdf http://www.proformproducts.com/en/products/listing/?category=7 http://www.autobodybrands.com/pdf/5-star-autobody-products-catalog.pdf http://www.dominionsureseal.com/productsmap.asp http://www.autobodymaster.com/products.jsp http://www.paintguys.com/Catalogs/FIVE STAR/2006_catalog.pdf
The best thing to do is have a Rep (If Available) come over to your shop and ask questions in person and maybe a demo. If they have good to great customer service, they will come over and spray it for you to let you see how it works. Usually they will even bring some products for you to try. I have tried different products other than Sikkens because a Sales Rep would come over and try to have me switch over.
There he is! The man himself! Thanks buddy I'm lookin into them now. I seemed to have misplaced the part of your post that had your opinion on the products though! Unfortunately, I doubt I'm that important. Haha.
Here's what everybody wants (I'm talking primers): LOW PRICE-some stuff is like buying gold bullion, but there are some choices that give you good bang for the buck. I don't have personal experience with every primer in the world, but if enough guys join in the discussion we should get a good idea on some good products. Primers are made up of resins, filler materials and solvents. Bottom line-the better stuff costs more money. EASY SANDING-we want to spend minimal time and effort sanding and use less sandpaper. A lot of times, easy sanding means that the filler material and resin in the primer are softer and more pourous. Sometimes the easy sanding will sacrifice solvent hold out which can end up making the product more likely to sandscratch shrinking or die back in topcoats as solvents can "soak" into the primer. Humidity in the air or water from wet sanding will penetrate some softer more pourous primers. FAST DRY/CURE-we want to spray it, sand it, and paint it quickly without problems. Now here's where we, as painters/bodymen can really change the performance of a good product and make it look and perform badly. With fast curing and drying products (primers) it is easy to trap solvents in the film or have the film "bridge" over sanding marks as it dries and not flow into the sanding scratches and fill them. Usually at a later time (after the paint is on) it will shrink back and fill the sanding marks and they will show in the color coat. Here are some things to remember when spraying primers. Most are made to dry/cure fast. If it's hot or extremely humid or both, you should look at slowing down the dry and cure of the product to let the film flow and fill sanding marks and let the solvents evaporate so they won't be trapped in the primer that will "skin" over too fast. Watch how many and how fast you apply your primer coats. Primer needs to flash out solvents between coats. If you hammer on too much too fast it will come back to bite you. If it's too cold, the hardners will NOT "kick" or cure the resin properly and solvents won't evaporate and can be trapped in the film. Sometimes the primer will complete the curing after the job has been painted and sat in the warm sun. You may have dieback and shrinkage from this much later on. We can add a small amount of slower reducer or retarder to get our primers to flow into scratches and dry at an even rate. Some primers have different speeds of hardners for different temperature ranges. Heat lamps or bake booths can speed the cure in cool conditions and help remove humidity. Temperature-hot or cold-and humidity, can greatly affect the performance of the primer. Our spray techniques can also affect the performance of primers. If you have had a job go to **** and you suspected the primer, think back to when it was primed and see if any of the above applies to that particular job. overspray
Not a painter Don't claim to be a painter Don't wanna be a painter Shot two cars in the driveway with Kirker Hot rod black and their primer using a Devillbis (sic) finish line gun. I don't know how it could have been any easier, looked great. Total cost for paint & primer (per car) about $158.00. if it lasts three years and goes to ****, we'll do the same again. one is approaching two years and still looks great.
I've heard good things about Southern Polyurethanes. Their stuff looks nice and thats a cheap 2K urethane that can go over bare metal. Have you used any of their stuff, care to lend an opinion?
I have not used the kirker stuff, but I used some of the evercoat G2 last week for the first time. It is a lot cheaper than the original feather fill. It sands a lot easier as well. It was about a million degrees outside and I was able to get everything in 3 coats without the stuff hardening in the gun like the old feather fill would have done! And the build is great. I'm sold on it.
no complaints here ....I used it all the time it holds up fine and as far as I am concerned ..when the customer beats you up on your quoted price ...you know the type, they get what they pay for . maybe even some house paint..lol... just kidding .thats for all the cheapos reading this, think before you peep, kirker is o.k. even still make lacquer last I checked but its been awhile.
A) I wouldn't make a pimple on a real painter's ***!, but ... B) I'd suggest you check out the whole line of products from Matrix Automotive Painting Systems (or something like that). For a hobbyist of limited skills and limited budget, I've found them to work well ... at a fraction of the cost charged by the big kids in this business. Sales of Matrix products are restricted (read prohibited) by multiple counties in California -- something to do with VOC's and such -- but they work damned good in Texas!!
I ordered a batch of the Kirker product today. I'll most likely have it by the wknd and I'll post up a review of it once I've used it. We'll see how it turns out.
Been using it for 5 years now. Builds and sands excellent. I then use PPG sealer and base / clear on top. Have not had a problem. When blocking out a car i figured i try something cheaper than PPG primers on my own **** first. Seeing the vast majority of the primer was ending up on the floor the first couple of blockings thought there had to be a less stupid way of doing this. Now i can piss away the other $75.00 a gallon i'd be spending on PPG on something else.
Ok, so last week we switched to the new Evercoat Quantam filler/glaze. This stuff is sweet. It eliminates the need for traditional body filler, and 40 AND 80 grit for bodywork. It is a 10:1 mix ratio, and comes with hardner for under 80 and over 80 degrees. This means that you always use the right amount of hardner. No more shrink back from under hardening for super hot days!! The best thing about it is the ease of sanding. This stuff cuts with 180 like buter with a hot knife!! It does cost more, but with the savings on sandpaper you will actually come out ahead!! I love this stuff. It also has vertical hold like dynagl***. No more sagging metal glaze! If you havent tried this stuff, call your paint rep and get a demo. I also tried something different for flat black this weekend. My buddy next door got an old harley recently and the paint was horrible. I have been bugging him for months to let me paint it for him. So friday he brings over his tins. He wants flat black and wont let me talk him out of it. Since I was out of imron I figured now is the time to try some product I have been curious about. So I got a quart of Hot Hues hot rod black. I love the Hot Hues candy concentrate, so I wanted to give this stuff a shot. And since it is my neighbor, I can see how durable it is as well. Since I was in a hurry( he wants to ride tomorrow) I didnt have time to do test panels like I usually do on new products. So I used the same technique I have used with Imron for years. 2-3 light coats for coverage with the last coat being medium for uniform texture. It didn't turn out as well as I expected. It looked just like basecoat with hardner. It wasnt so much matte as it was low gloss. So I decided to try something else. A good friend recently switched over to Shermin Williams and offered up some of their flat clear for the testing. Again, I applied just like I do Imron and crossed my fingers. It should have turned out eggshell, but it was more of a satin pushing toward semi gloss. As I was rushed for time, I think with some time doing test panels It might get closer to the desired result, but on the first try I wasnt happy. But my neighbor was, and in the end thats all that maters. Next time though, I'm going to stick with what I know, Imron flat clear is the best for flat paint jobs IMO.
im takin that opinion from others on the forum. the ones do quality work, and i respect their opinion. i was plannning to use spi epoxy on my shoebox after it got blasted, which should be tuesday, but i didnt order it in time. and will probably use sem metalok, since i can get it the same damn, and its fairly inexpensive. i have tested their adhesion promoter they came out with, and tried it on some very very sensitive to adhesion plastics, and worked exactly like they stated. im on their forum, and post, just havent gotten around to using, since i will likely have to order directly from them. im also a fan of sems primers. like stated with the metalok and also their tintable true prime. ive only been doing custom the past few years, and im not interested in using ppg or dupont, and ive used matrix, but i dont stick to their system. i usually use whatever, unless its a good job and i just use sem color horizons throughout. ive been told to not use kirker from soemone i respect. so i choose not too... but ive also never seen it in person.
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