Technical Lacquer Paint Questionnaire

I'm getting a real kick out of this thread as I started my apprenticeship right out of mechanics trade school in 1967 in a dealership that did regular crash repairs and a few high end jobs for friends of the boss. My guru was a hard drinking, tail chasing, chain smoking, bodyman emphasis on MAN. He had about 40+ years in the trade at the time and I came in right at the cusp.

We used mostly Nitrocellulose lacquer using the ever popular binks and if you had big bucks a devilbiss. The the then new newfangled acrylic lacquer just coming out and he had a good time getting the salesmen to finish 1/2 completed jobs using their new paint for free to demonstrate how good it was.

We would let rush lacquer jobs cure overnight and buff with a wool pad on a low speed buffer and high dollar nitro lac jobs wait a month before buffing with a higher speed (never knew what their actual rpms were) buffer using dupont red compound sometimes cutting it with water in the final stages. Finishing with 3M's Fill N Glaze and wax if the customer was a good one. We VERY seldom used clear as a finisher it simply wasn't needed but used it if a customer insisted.

BUT if you did your prep work correctly, and had paint gun skills and the correct amount of people running guns, if a total repaint, there were jobs that needed NO BUFFING at all it was that smooth and orange peel free.

However there is no "Coverup" using lacquer your bodywork MUST be up to scratch there is no hiding of sloppy or rushed prep work using lacquer what you see is what you get.

We did eventually get into using lucite acrylic lacquer just because of the lack of color choices in nitro. It was ok for repair work but never had the achievable smooth finish of nitro.

I did my own car in black nitro lacquer and it was a daily driver that saw outside temps of from -25 to 100+ and I had it for 25 years plus and never had any problems with cracking,checking, crazing or any other problem EXCEPT you did have to keep after it and keep it waxed or it would get the dreaded graying or whitish discoloration starting (never on mine but others we did).

I would say that there is NO OTHER PAINT JOB AS GOOD LOOKING AS A QUALITY NITROCELLULOSE BLACK LACQUER PAINT JOB BAR NONE with little or NO color sanding just buffing needed.

I will say some of the colors in the now popular paint systems that flop and change colors and metallic black and pearl whites are pretty good looking.

EDIT: forgot gurus questions. I think there are two types of wants concerning uses.

first would be the normal painters that are just looking for the look of lacquer that LASTS better than the old stuff for average jobs.

the second would be sterling depths, shine and smoothness for people doing quality paint jobs with not much concern for the flash times, buffing ease or any other concerns as long as the final product had the BEST LOOK.

 

Bill Hirsch Auto sells Nitrocellulose Lacquer. Black and Clear in stock, custom colors upon request.

 

The only place mine is cracking is where filler is after painted in late 70's

 

Send me a pm with product name of thinner and part number. I will look at msds, but this goes back to my point about cheap lacquer thinners, yours is probably full of methanol.

 

Ive been using napa's virgin lacquer thinner, it was on sale about 6 months ago for 34 bucks for 5 gallons
so i bought 25 gallons
I like fine, it would be nice if it was faster
but i still miss carters 201

 

You will probably end up selling about 8 gallons just to ME over the next 8-10 years, starting next spring when I paint my '39. I'll be putting Ermine White on an off-topic chevy II around the same time, and theres an OT '65 Falcon ht that will be going into Raven Black in the next year or so, and a T-bucket that will be Naples Orange, and that's just the beginning. There are still lots of guys out there that actually paint their own cars. And as F-Head said, this thread isn't titled "honk if you hate lacquer". If you have no plans to spray a car in lacquer in the future, you have no reason to post on this thread. Go start another thread.
As no way IN HELL am I spraying my '39 in BC/CC, if I was gonna do that, I would have put a easy 500hp 377 chevy and M-22 in it, instead of a PITA 350hp Olds rocket and cad/lasalle trans. For those that don't get it, well, you don't get it.

 

And my hunch is those guys aren't going anywhere soon.

 

They've been selling them for years now and even though I live in California, I can place a order if I wish too. I don't need the paint now.

 

I for one would love to see the old acrylic lacquers reproduced!.I painted a 69 buick 225 convertible inwhite lacquer.RM alpha cryl.But will it have the lead in it.I heard once they took the lead out it was SHIT!

 

Sorry if I offended people with my posts. As you can see I did use lacquer paint previously. I just stated my thoughts as to the current uses of that product since there is much better paints on the market today.

 

If my reply/quote seemed that way OLDSMAN, no, I was not offended. Harsh response to be sure but no offense at all. I sometimes take a hard line against an industry that seems bent on driving itself out of the hands of the individual and limiting use to commercial-only application. I won't get political, I also like that we all want clean air and water. What we don't want is some sanctimonious group of uninformed folk who think they know more than we do about our choices, needs and goals, how to use our product process responsibly, and not send a false image of the "terror" we might be doing to the environment. The right answer is always somewhere in the middle.

If Mr. Guru can develop a product that takes us where we once were and we don't have to sell a kidney to buy it, I'm in. Shown side by side and no extra steps taken on the new to duplicate a finish (it can be done), lacquer will always look and "feel" better. It may not perform as well, but that's accepted before the 1st dollar is spent. If his newer version performs better than the old it's a win/win for the end user or the pro shop with focused goals.

 

Without debate or disagreement, everything would be mediocre. This Let's me know how it should be built. No offense taken on my end.

 

Lead was in the pigment, helped with coverage,.didn't effect the coating itself. But really it is hard to tell until you get to your chrome yellow pigments.

Ok so this begs the question, are you guys looking for a Acrylic Lacquer or Nitro Lacquer?

 

YES God yes what ever I can shoot in my shop

 

Well said Sir. That's whats behind the guys that show up on EVERY thread that mentions lacquer and start hacking off. Most of them are guys that paint for a living, and with a decent hot rod quality paint and prep running upwards of $10,000, I guess its no wonder. But it still kinda blows my mind on a forum that is supposed to be ALL ABOUT DIY.

 

PG, if you're looking for a show of hands count mine for acrylic. This topic makes me want to find a picture I took way back in '86-7. It's what appears to be a picture of my old compressor. It's as clear as if you were looking at it for the shot. Then I stepped back a few feet and took the picture of the car it was reflected into. It was acrylic lacquer, and to the best of my knowledge that finish is still on that car today. I know there was a repair in '99 for some minor cracks on the rear lead seam where a transporter banged it with a ramp. A minor dent, surface cracks around it. I think that could serve notice as to what happens with brittle coatings. Enough flex in the lead seam to allow it, I believe had that been nitro it may have been worse. Disclaimer; that refers to that material at that time. Not today's, maybe not with your new formulas...?

 

Highlander other than longevity were there any major differences in the performance of Nitro and Acrylic?

 

I am curious my self because nitro cures off straight evaporation, the acrylic would need some humidity to help along with evaporation. I would think the acrylic would not dry sand as easy. But I don't know anything about nitro.

 

Full agreement with you. Hope the anti-lacquer folks read and reflect for a moment before posting.

I am following this thread from the prospective of a back yard hack that wants to paint a few cars for myself. I would like to use a lacquer but have not sprayed it for many years.

I have concerns about the health affects from spraying urethanes and more so for my kids now spraying the stuff.

 

The nitro, and this is really an un-scientific observation, acts more like primer with the dry/purge time, does indeed dry sand with less paper build up. You get some but not like dry sanding base coat or acrylic lacquer. Where I put some of your reply in bold, in practical experience moisture present in the application of acrylic lacquer is the enemy. It'll blush big time. Get that white looking cloud between the layers. If you're lucky you can open it up with some 800-1000 paper and put it in a bake booth. Then the blush might go away, but in my experience once blushed you're in for a re-spray. Nitro is worse with humidity/moisture. I think the ideal acrylic lacquer spraying environment is under 60% humidity, minimum 65 degrees with the proper solvent, maximum 80 degrees, maybe 85, and again with the proper solvent for a complete purge. If the humidity goes high like say 75-80% but the temp was like low 70s, you would have to use a solvent that was good for a higher temps, maybe 10 degrees higher rating, to reduce the chance of a blush. Never heard that moisture aids curing of acrylic lacquers. Counter-intuitive but...?

 

Hey PG are the reducers different as well? The lacquer I have is Nitro and I need to get some reducers and I have heard I need to get Nitro reducer and I can find stuff up here that is manufactured by a wood finishing company that is suppose to be high quality but not sure if it would work out with my paint. Getting anything from the U.S. is a killer right now with the exchange and cost of shipping on heavy product so trying to source it in Canada.

 

This is in-step w/my experience , used to hate trying to paint when it was humid !
My vote for acrylic.
dave

 

I always preferred Dupont lacquer products, maybe since that's what my jobber sold, and in Ky the humidity is high in the spring through fall, and low in the winter , but its too cold too paint in the garage. If you had a good humidity controlled booth, or access to one, I wouldn't flip a nickel for the difference, Nitro or Acrylic. They both flow well and the Nitro may dry between coats a little faster, at least for me. But , that said, The acrylic is so much more workable in my 2 car garage/ homemade booth. The 131s fill and sand is hands down, the best acrylic primer on the market IMO. I am still using some I bought 15 years ago. I would like to see a jet black Acrylic with a good clear that will top my Dupont 131s and leave me with a smile. So my vote is acrylic.

 

I painted my 32 with lacquer that I got from a warehouse that went out of business over 20 years ago. Paint never goes bad, the key is the thinner. Too much elbow grease for a 56 year old.

 

Which of the two base materials have the most flexibility? ..... the plastic based acrylic or the nitrocellulose ? Also why did acrylic replace the nitro? Was it the VOC's ? I'm ok with acrylic simply because it's all I've mixed & used. This is a great thread , thank you PG. Flux

 

Is acetone or mek exempt solvents for Canada? Nitro is usually suspended in mek, acetone should work.

 

Well hands down I can get excellent flexibility, and no blushing with a Acrylic. We can also build it off our current mix system possibly. I will build some pint samples of a black "not a deep black" but send to a few of you who are interested to sample and test with a little questionnaire about performance etc. But please if interested don't use on a vehicle just in case there is something that is forgot and it turns to shit. It happens, we built a primer that was too hard to sand once lol.

 

can you mix a 1957 chevy onyxe black

 

Nothing is really banned if you get to it from the right industry. I am just painting in my garage so no need to worry about VOC laws any ways but we do a good quality zero VOC reducer for our Dura Build that I think is pretty much Acetone maybe I will try that. I can get it easy enough. LOL Thanks

 

I have only used acrylic.