Latest update for Jason Graham Hotrods

The photos of that fire were devastating, but you are only covered for what your policy is written for. Everyone needs to read their policy more clearly. When doing work on a customers car you have a clear understanding of the work to be done and what the charges will be. Your policy is no different.

 

Seems to me like the only reason we have insurance is because there is some law that says we have to. They are very artful at NOT paying a claim. Get yourself a rabid lawyer.

 

To everyone...get ARAG...for about $30 a month you can have the services of a lawyer. I have it as a work benefit but anyone can buy it as an individual.
Jason, I wish you well in your fight.

http://www.araggroup.com/index.htm

 

Talk to a public adjuster in your area usually they work on a commission basis if they get you money from insurance and they can refer you to the right kind of lawyer

 

Jason....I cannot imagine just how stressed you are brother. I just wish you well, strength, and luck. I'm hoping somehow the insurance company will help out some...hell a little is better than nothing. Please keep in mind, you, nor any of your family or friends were physically hurt in that devastating fire. That is something to be thankful for. Like the old saying, it could have been worse...

I know several others as well as myself has stated that we all can learn something from this horrible situation. I just want to add this; I was talking with a friend today, and it seems that a couple weeks ago he had a tree fall onto his camping trailer and back corner of his garage. When he bought the trailer, he specifically asked his agent if he needed to have some form of insurance during the winter/off season months when they would not be using the trailer, and it was stored at home. His agent told him no, that his homeowners policy would cover it. Well guess what....the homeowners policy will not cover this damage, even tho it was force of nature, because the trailer was outside the garage!!! When he asked his agent "WTF...you told me it would be covered when it was stored during the winter/off season at home". His reply was "when you told me "stored" I took it as it would be inside your garage not outside. If it was inside, it would have been covered.

Just goes to show you, you have to be very very clear, thorough, and cautious when creating a policy for ANYTHING.

 

Time to contact the Tennessee Insurance and Commerce Commisioner. Gonna sick their ass on them.

 

Talked to a friend of mine that works in the fraud investigation for a very large insurance company. Here's the problem as he sees it. You had a residential policy in affect. You changed your status to a commercial business without notifying the insurance company and did not get a commercial policy. By doing that you have negated the original policy. If you had made a claim and not told them you were conducting business, then you would have also committed insurance fraud, could be a felony. It appears you did not do that. BUT ....
Because you were now operating a commercial business for profit, the building that you were conducting that in becomes a commercial property and the residential policy is no longer valid and it really doesn't matter what you had in there, how long it was there, or if it was covered before; it isn't covered because you didn't cover it with the proper type insurance policy which would have come at a much higher rate.

If you did not have written contractual agreements regarding insurance with your customers, you could get into a he said she said argument which will probably go in the customers favor.

Not trying to bum you out further, just shedding some light on the situation.

as far as garage keepers goes, it is not the only type of insurance policy you need for a business, you also need to cover personal and public property and liability insurance all of which can be written with a garage keepers policy.

Good Luck, I hope you can work all this out

 

I'm surprised it took two pages for this information to come up. It's accurate.

I feel bad for your loss, I truly do, but one thing that almost everyone overlooks is that it is our responsibility to understand what it is we buy, especially when entering into a contract. Insurance policies really aren't that hard to read and understand. If you can't understand what is there, hire an attorney right up front to explain it to you, or, better yet enlist the help of your states' Department of Insurance (or what ever it's named in your state). Their job is to regulate insurance companies and provide consumer protection, which includes helping insurance consumers understand their policies.

 

When I bought my shop insurance (went ligit) I thought there would be just one. I have several different insurance policies that are written by different companys through an independant agent.

There is a policy for customers or people walking down my side walk or inside the building who trip and fall and decide to sue.

A policy for things that happen to the building. Hail, Fire, wind, ect on my building (Fire if we start it or not, covers law suits if it starts other buildings close by on fire)

A policy for personal contents(My tools, my cars, my employees tools, inventory, ect..)

A customers contents policy. One shop I know of has a written agreement with their customers that state that the owner is require to have insurance on their own car. The problem with this is that the owners insurance co did not sign the agreement... they will pay the owner and sue you to recover their loss. Also was told to have all customers insure their car for what they think it is worth so there is an established value to go off of in case of a loss. Walk through the shop and add up what all the customers property is worth and add 10%(some will claim it is worth more) and bite this bullet on this one. It is expensive but is also peace of mind.

Garage insurance is broken up into a few different things.
#1 We damage the car in the shop
#2 Something falls off or causes damage (crash it) when we are test driving it
#3 Something falls off or causes damage when the customer is driving it

With employees there is also unemployment insurance and work comp.


As a side note -It seems sometimes people are a little critical of what a shop charges to work on a hot rod or a custom car. These are a few of the costs that are built into the hourly rate along with taxes and such. When you are trying to chose the shop to work on your car, these are a few more things to consider. Is the shop with the higher rate screwing you or is the shop with the lower rate not protecting you.


I am very sorry that this happened to Jason.

This should be a wake up call to anyone doing this (commercially) Get legit as fast as you can or stop. I ran for a year before I bought all these policies( Didn't know what I needed). I knew I would have to work quite a few more hours to break even but I ain't much of a gambler.

I have seen a some very talented guys on the HAMB doing some builds for customers out of a two car garage attached to their house. I know everyone needs to start somewhere but I wonder if their home owners would pay for the house if the fire started in the garage?

Edit- This is how I think my policies work but I am going to go over them with my agent after typing this.

 

Sorry for your loss.. I drove to your open house several years ago and enjoyed myself . I have a friend who has a circle track race car.. He works out of his house property.... The ins co turned down a fire claim on a detached shop saying that racing was a business and he was paid prize money.. Ergo no claim will be paid..His lawers argument is that the IRS stated that racing is Hobby income and not a legit buss. They only allowed duction of expenses that is the same as income..I Will let you know how it comes out.. lost race car .boat, 4 wheeler pit machine. and a large amount of tools and equipment..Bobby

 

fucken bastards!!!!!!! they are just in it for the money! its like what the fuck, what am i covered for then?????? there is always some bullshit in super tinny print to get them out of paying! i say kill them all!!!! not all company's are bad, but a lot are fuckers! bad fuckers!!! i hope it works out for you brother!

 

Jason, I've been following your tragedy since the first post. I can't imagine going through the crap you are.

Does your insurance company use captive agents, or did you purchase through an independent agent? How big of a city do you live in, and does your agent live close to you? Have you advertised or done any P.R. locally where your agent would have seen the adds? Did you take out a loan to start your biz? Do you have a mortgage on your property? If so, did the bank know that you had a home biz?

If any of the answers are yes, pm me, i might be able to help.

 

Excellent information..

Also..when you tell "customers" their cars will not be covered as you have no insurance..you are admitting that you knew there will be no coverage for "customers".
Home business involving the property of others is quite different than a home office for example an accountant. The risks are different..the potential loss and risk to life is different.

An insurance company can only insurance what they know as the RISK. That's why a office supply shop costs differ from a firearms dealer.

Luckily your neighbors house..or family was not involved in the fire. Might want to check code and laws in your area. My home would need OSHA, EPA disposal and air filters etc. IF I was allowed a business on my property.

Please make sure you get it all done before you start a business.

Having proper insurance is no different than having proper tools. Knowing how to operate a business is no different than knowing how to weld.
It's all just a part of it.

 

Jason just want you to know i am Praying for you through out this .. it does suck that these insurance companies are so shady. I work at a shop where we deal with this type of shadyness all the time keep the faith brother it will work out DO NOT LOSE THE DREAM..

 

Why is the insurance company shady?

While this story is tragic, the fact is- he's running a business from his home. When his garage turned from hobby to business, it's a whole new game. Requires commercial insurance, not homeowners! Probably requires permits & business license too.
Looks to me that the poster is now playing the blame game. Blaming everyone but himself. Read your homeowner's policy. You are not covered.
There's alot of stuff to do to start a business from home & sadly, ignorance is no excuse. When you turned this from hobby to business, you should have had insurance in place BEFORE you worked on someone elses car, not blaming everyone after the fact.

I know what I'm talking about. I own 2 businesses & my son sells insurance.

 

so your son sales insurance? what that make you an expert? im just wondering?

 

I didn't see where he said he was an expert. Maybe his tone is a little harsh under the circumstances, happens really easy through the typed word.

I would bet he knows more about insurance than the average guy because of the two businesses he owns.

A home owners policy is maybe a thousand or so, a shop policy will go way over ten grand for a small shop to be properly insured.

When you make that payment every month you want to know what you are buying.

Son being in the business adds a little knowledge just through listening to his son talk about work.

 

I own a plumbing & HVAC business. I also own a filing service for attorneys & the IRS. I have 28 employees between both businesses.
So I know what it takes to run a business & carry the correct insurance.
My son works for a major insurance company & sells both commerical & ressy plans.
He was standing right here when I posted before.
I never said I was an expert- just know what I'm talking about.

 

yea i know im just being a smartass! i have a business too. he just came off a little abrasive, dont bash the guy while hes down! i just hope the guy can get back to doing what he loves. and thats build cars.

 

Really.

 

just how i feel. sorry if it offends you.

 

Jason, you rolled the dice and lost. You knew you what you were doing, so let's cut the crap and quit looking for sympathy. We pay for the consequences of our actions...

 

I also have a buisness and had 54 employees prior to the current administration came into office. Not all agents are bad,but maybe some audit their clients needs better than others that is also how they increase their sales. I currently have to carry 3 million in customer libilty to maufactor drianage produts and I cautiouly have to watch for the boundrys set by my insurance co. and my lawyers. because they work together. It is great if they are willing to help you count your blessings there are some good agents left but so many do whats best for the (company) and they say insurance fraud is out of control. In the future Jason I wish you all the best. This is going to be a rough for sometime then mabey it will smooth out. Dont give up learn from this shit !! its a big game play by the rules and maybe they will honor the commitments they make. (BULLSHIT) !!

 

Way to kick a guy when he's down. I couldn't imagine having to go through this, insurance or not. This is most hot rodders worst nightmare.

 

Yes it maybe time to take responsibility for your own risk

 

Yeah, you're right. I am kicking him when he is down, and I'm also kicking him in the ass for risking it all, just to save a little money! Look at his web site, this was no backyard shadetree business he was conducting. We live in a free country...free to make choices, good, bad or indifferent.....in this case HE made a terrible choice, and wants other people to pay for it. Suck it up buttercup, life doesn't work that way.

 

That sucks man. Bad. I'm sorry to say it, but you're screwed. The only thing that you will get is IF they are feeling gracious with you or if the media gets involved and you get alot of sympathy.
The next thing to insurance that I hate is lawyers.......the insurance chasing type! They are right up there in rank with politicians to me, they want to get something for nothing. Don't be blinded by the lawyers claims, get one that don't get paid if they don't win if you have to get one.

And yeah, Ratfink is right in a sense....pretty heartless and harsh....but right none the less! Jason DID have a legit business and did NOT have insurance to cover it.

Sorry Jason, I truly hope it turns out for you without bankruptcy.

 

Unfortunately this happens a lot, shops without insurance.
Part of the reason I closed Altered Engineering was due to an insurance increase. Unlike some I was NOT willing to risk my home, my family's well being, my personal property etc. My rates went from $3,000 per year to $12,000 per year. I decided it was no longer worth it, so I closed the business. I do have a small "Hobby Shop" still, 1000 sq ft and you know what, I still carry insurance on it, couple of hundred a year.
Now here's the interesting thing. When I have talked to other shops around here, most of the smaller guys (some of whom you guys would recognize) have told me they don't have, can't afford insurance! The worst part is most of them have said something to the affect of "well I would just close the business if something happened and I'd be OK". Sad that they don't realize they would still be personally liable. Even those that are incorporated or LLC won't be covered because not carrying insurance is a willful act which means you knowingly did it and it takes away the shelter because you did it on purpose - you are exposed to all liability!
And for those of you that have home shops that are businesses and think that your home owners should cover it are either ignorant or just trying to fool yourselves. In fact you could really be up shit creek if your home shop has a problem and it spreads to your own house (not to mention a neighbor's), the cause of the fire being a commercial enterprise would most likely negate the insurance on your home as the cause, or fault if you will, was not under control of the home owners policy.

Let Jason's problems serve as a warning to the rest of you that think you can just slide through.

All you people that just want to bash insurance companies should really wake up. Insurance fraud is rampant and it is the reason that policies have become so specific and have so many exclusions. And while many will fight tooth and nail to deny coverage, if you are right they are also one of the most regulated businesses and the insurance commission (or what ever your state calls it) will go to bat for you - IF you are right. And YES they are a Business that is out to make a profit - just like your business!

 

I went through the same shit about 15 years ago. I hired what I thought was the best lawyer I could find. After 2 years of hearings, depositions, and expert witness testimony I ended up with nothing! Then my Attorney sued me for the additional expenses he incurred in losing the action, after he already had gotten about every dime I could beg borrow or steal. He won, and in addition to not recieving any compensation I had to pay him. I might note, I had commercial insurance but since the shop I had was leased, and the cause of the fire could not be determined exactly, ( the fire investigator suspected lightning), the insurance company had the right to refuse compensation under the rules of right to subrogation. In other words, if my landlord started the fire to collect the insurance, or somebody else just did it to get back at me for something, they had the right to get their money back from them. The court upheld the insurance companys' rights under the terms of the policy. I have never really recovered from the loss so my heart goes out to you. Just don't count on them folding because you hired a lawyer. They have tons of them on payroll a lot better paid then anybody you could hire. Fortunatly my fire was limited to my showroom and fab/machine shop which held only cars owned by me and for sale at the time. The customer cars were thankfully pretty untouched. I lost not only a ton of tools and equiptment but a '35 Ford flatback, '30 Tudor and 57 Desoto along with my showroom inventory.

Sorry for the negativity. I just want you to be realistic. Your loyal customers will stick with you. Good luck and get back at it.

 

damn, you even went to his website to get info for your assface comments. I'd say by now he knows he fucked up, and doesnt need anybody elses help to feel bad. I dont think he needs our sympathy, or your "tuff love" asskickin. This thread is for the guys who are interested in his work, and his shop. I could get on most of the threads on the hamb, and find something to be an asshole about. If i dont like a thread, or post, i skip it. Maybe you should do the same in this case. You dont know what he was thinking by getting, or not getting the right insurence. People get busy, shit happens, who thinks about stuff like that all the time? He was probably busy building badass hot rods. Find another thread to bitch on, this thread is for the people worried about his shop, and future as a hot rod builder. Not the i'm a know it all doooshbag, and feel like being an asshole thread.