I thought I'd try my luck in the custom area since I've heard this may have been an old way to lower customs in the rear, along with de arched springs. I figured if some custom heads are always in the custom section that they would see it here rather the the general area and I'd be able to get the expertise on the subject. So if not feel free to move it, since ryan is so picky. For the rear of a vehicle, I'm planning on running two leafs per side. The two leafs will be the main leaf and second longest leaf under the main leaf. The plan: I want to completely flip over the MAIN leafs (that's with the bow going up towards the vehicle and not towards the ground how it's intended. No de arching.) My question is for the second leaf, following the curvature of the main leaf, would I leave it how it originally was packed under the main leaf? So it would be main leaf, second leaf, axle. Or should I move the second leaf so it would be second leaf, main leaf, axle? Questions? Please ask. Thanks.
I think you will find two stock leaves per side will be insufficient to carry the vehicle weight, even if left in the original 'bow down' orientation. Most likely this change will result in the vehicle ch***is resting on the axle housing with no spring support at all......only serving to locate the axle fore and aft. Also, it likely will have minimal ability to control axle housing rotation under anything but light acceleration. But the car will be setting much lower. However, to answer your question. With the spring 'flipped as you describe, it would be second leaf, main leaf, axle. Ray
Here is what i have done in the past with good results, if you want to keep the springs stock thickness and use existing clamps get a set or spare leaf the same length as the second leaf (under the main with eyes ) Strip your old springs apart now do away with the very bottom leaf , re***emble the springs with a long length of threaded bar putting the spare leaf flipped over on top of the main leaf so it forms like a bow , now clamp together using the threaded bar and G clamps , when springs are compressed remove bar and replace with the stock bolt/pin What you will find is the springs are now straight but under pressure lowering your rear but with a nice ride
Years ago I was told to check your leaf springs for cracks that you cannot see, turn them upside down and step on them with both feet. If there are cracks you will find them. When taking springs apart I have always done this and yes, some that looked good broke and when examined they were slightly cracked but were not visible before this simple test. Remember that you are now reversing the intended engineering design and planning to drive it down the road, maybe not the safest IMO.
Ray I agree that two leafs isn't sufficient enough to carry the weight even if left in original position. I've done it before, It will hold the rear but springs bowed up a good amount to where the axle was about 2 inches from the frame, terrible ride. For second response, I'm having a little trouble following the suggestion about clamping the main leaf and acquiring a spare second leaf. From my understanding I got dis***emble the pack, removal smallest leaf, flip main leaf over onto the lower leafs like this () then clamp the main leaf down forcing it the take shape of the lower leafs. From re reading it seems you're suggesting a leaf pack in this order: lower leafs, main leaf, spare second leaf, axle. If that's correct why does a second longest lead have to go on top of the main lead? Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
Just fab a set of lower blocks and obtain a set of new "U" bolts. I think that 4 inches would be the limit.
I didn't want to add this but it's probably necessary to mention it. The rear is also going to have coil springs mounted onto the rear axle housing tubes, which may help with vehicle weight. On top of the springs will be 6 inch hydraulic cylinders to adjust ride height. Being the car will sit low I know the springs will bow up towards the vehicle, and upon the cylinders extending, I ***ume the leaf will still be slightly bowed up but in a more flat position. Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
Why not just 4 link, or trailing arms if you are going hydraulic anyway? Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
I'll looks for cracks, newer springs not original. I have 3 inch block, forgot to mention that. Don't want to 4 link unless absolutely needed and really don't want to install 4 link. Just looking for more opinions. Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
sounds like a lot of work to achieve what has been done for many years before - with the upside down leafs/blocks and coil spring /hydraulics going to be a terrible ride - when going real low may be be clearance problems in wheelwell, frame & floor - need to consider pinion angle too
I have been around quite a while and I think that you may be confused. In the '90s a flp kit for the truck crowd was about moving the rear to the top of the springs and sometimes it involved a different shackle setup. early on to flip a spring meant to reverse the eyes. Not turn the spring over. Now early in this century there were guys building the underslung ch***is with the springs and axle above the ch***is. The springs were restacked to work backward, IE the second leaf and on down were set inside the arch of the spring. If you are dropping to a double leaf you may as well drop to a single to locate the axle and bag it. If you used old Air Lift style bags ( or real airlift bags) it would be somewhat traditional at least a later '50s.early '60s type of traditional.
I really appreciate everyone's feedback. As far as clearance goes, the driveshaft tunnel has been raised, the frame is notched, and the frame would probably hit the ground before it hit the axle housing and before the tires hit the top of the wheel wells. I've seen the underslung ch***is before and yes I sort of had that idea in mind, with stacking them in reverse order (again probably using only two springs) and having the axle on top of the leafs. Here are two photos (raised and lowered) of a setup I came across that's about 99% close to what I had in mind. It looks like only the main leaf flipped over. And flipped as in the main leaf turned upside down, not re-worked by bending the arch with machinery in the opposite direction how I've also seen before. It has bags which I'm not going to use but aside from those, the suspension setup is the same idea I had.
I hesitated to reply because I don't really like to discourage guys trying to build their cars "their" way, but I think your idea is dangerous, won't work, and is a waste of time. If you'd like to prove me wrong I'd love to see it all put together and pics of the ***embly with a thousand miles on it. But I bet it won't make it around the block. You will be very surprised how far that spring will bend when turned upside down. Say it might have five inches of arch in its original configuration. But now you have flipped it loose and have all the weight pushing it free form upward. And only one second leaf to hold it in place (also upside down?). Your frame will be dragging before you ever get all the weight off the jack. And then you want to push the thing back up with hydraulics on coil springs? Ridiculous. Nothing about this is sound automotive engineering, let alone traditional or "cool". Just do it right and install some ladder bars or a four bar. And then maybe you could use your hydraulics if you really want to be old school bomb.
I guess I am still not getting the picture. Seems to me if you flip the spring the rear and will be smashed against the frame before the car hits the ground. Lowering a leaf spring rear end REALLY low is 100yr old custom car technology, why not just take advantage of that history and do it the usual way? Start with reversing the eyes, de-arching the stock spring pack which will give the load carrying capacity with the lower stance. Any decent size town that has some trucking has a spring shop who can hammer your springs into submission.
Well I am looking for input, so everything I'm reading is great. Ridiculous to some, yes. I'm sure many people back in the 40s-50s said "not having fenders on a coupe? That looks/is ridiculous." To each his own. More input will be appreciated. Thanks willys36, that process has crossed my mind and is still under great consideration. As far as axle being smashed against frame, yes probably so. The frame has a notch in it however so there's a little more travel room that should help out. About load carrying, there will also be short coil springs from the axle to the frame which will help carry the weight.
In the example you show, the leaf spring is only used to locate the rear axle. This is simpler than reworking the axle and ch***is to utilize control arms, trailing arms, etc. The air spring is what's controlling the load now. In your case, since it looks like you're wanting to do this to a '57 Chevy, just follow the tried-and-true method of using some lowering blocks. Why try to reinvent the wheel?
Thanks for noticing the photos, and yes the leafs mostly locate and it is simpler than mocking up ch***is and axle for a 4 link install, thanks for pointing that out. Also right, the bags do hold the weight. In my case, it would be coil springs that hold the weight. Instead of a deflated bag getting filled with air and lifting the vehicle, a pair of hydraulic cylinders will extend against the coil springs thus lifting the vehicle.
When flipping only the top spring, you may have to cut a little off the ends of the second spring, as it may "dig into" the eyes of the main spring. The picture is from an earlier Chevy, but you get the idea. That single spring holding up the rear in your picture may be a thicker than stock one, I wouldn't try 1 standard leaf to do the job.
Thanks for the photo and hint about t******* the second leaf. If you did that pack yourself may I ask did you simply just clamp the main leaf down onto the pack? Or did you actually re work the curve to match? Also if you did the work, do you know how it rode after? Thanks.
I actually tried this once on my shoebox vert. I didn't like having a lowering block in there and well, I had a bunch of time to kill so I thought I'll try to flip the spring and see what happens. It was too low with the entire spring flipped (not too low as in the car s****ing the ground low, but so low the rear end was bottomed out against the frame and I still wasn't able to get a bolt through the rear shackle yet low) next I tried just flipping the main leaf. This was better but still didnt work. I ended up going beck to a lowering block although I ended up making my own out of steel instead of using the cheap aluminum ones that were in it already.
I'd think that just removing most of the leaves and leaving the main and second leaves would do what you want. You can only go down so far and either the axle hits the frame or the body hits the ground if you have a deep enough notch. I'm like the others though in that I think you will get a lot of rear axle wrap without some sort of bars to prevent it with that many leaves gone. With bagged setups being so simple I can't see why most guys would go to hydraulics now days. I can see the lowrider brigade who like the extended rams that raise a corner way the hell up in the air doing it but that is what those dudes do. By the time you get the hydraulic rams. pump, hoses, and batteries to run the pump you have a chunk of money tied up in something that a simple and not that spendy bag kit would have handled. Folks here know that I am not a fan of bags on rides so I am not promoting bags, just a simple less h***le solution that works without building a cobbled up mess that will give trouble.
Re-rolling spring eyes too often ends up with the eyes looking like 'Coke Bottles', or 'hourgl*** shapes'. Actual way to do this is cold-rolling the main leaf the opposite arch. Repeat with the rest of the leaves if lessening the arc. Do note the #2 leaf, as previously mentioned: It will have to be trimmed shorter 3/4" both ends, so as not to interfere with now reversed eyes. If the leaves can't be rolled into reverse/lessened arch, they van be bent in short increments in your press. (every 2") My young, lovely wife did both sets on my '55 F100 last October. Great new stance, (lower, but also has a '59 front axle, good for another 1" drop) Ride is excellent. She also drilled main and second leaves for centerbolt relocation, 1.25" forward. NOW, the wheels sit in the center of the wheelwell, not 1" rearward. (Factory 'setback' was for sharp turns...Toyo P/S box remedies that)
Mr48chev, the two leafs in their original spot is going to be my first attempt most definitely. If all is fine with that I probably won't even bother with my other crazy ideas. As far as bags go, I had them before. Simple install pretty much, depending on what you're doing actually. If you're getting a two link kit those can sometimes cost $1000. No thanks. This is another reason why I want to make the leaf spring setup work. But I choose hydraulics because that's what I originally wanted. "1st generation" aircraft hydraulics that made their way into vehicles. That's another story however.
Rides OK, you just need a heap of clamps, a little at a time, be careful! The long drill bit just kept the holes lined up. If you cut the ends of the second leaf, dont forget to chamfer and round the ends off. Grease up between the leaves (or you can fit nylon "****ons" like on a F100 spring").
Had a pickup with leaves at the rear, sat too high.. It had about 5 leaves per side, I removed the springs and took them apart, and attacked the 3 top leaves, leaving the bottom 2 stock.. I put each leaf (one at a time) in a hydraulic press and gave each leaf a quick tweak about every 4'' or so along it's length which straightened them.. I checked each corresponding leaf to its opposite leaf, to get each curve / shape the same.. It didn't take much to remove the curve and get flat, dropped the rear to where I wanted it, and retained all the original leaves, handled a load, rode great, and the diff didn't wrap up on power..
Basically this is the same principle i was trying to explain but instead of flipping the top leaf putting the spare on top so basically tensions and flatten the springs There was a reason why I could not flip the top leaf but cant remember why now but I got the ride height I wanted without using lowering blocks
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