Leaf Spring Sliders info needed

So now I'm thinking about using leaf spring sliders rather than shackles. I really like the way they look and it will mount the rear spring eye higher than I could have with shackles. I'm not sure I will find any sliders that will work with my Ford Explorer leaf springs though. Seems they are all made for Chrysler springs. I'll keep searching or maybe use different springs, would rather use what I have though. My Explorer leafs are 2.5" wide but the bushing sleeve is 3" wide. The bushing diameter(eye opening) is 1.75". The sliders I've found, Afco, Speedway, Summit... all have a 1" or 1.5" bushing for Chrysler spring eyes. If I can't find any, maybe I can have a couple reducer sleeves made up that are 1.75" OD/ 1.5" ID. press them into the spring eye and then the solid slider bushing into the sleeve. It's a thought.
Anyone using sliders over shackles and know of another source or way to get them to work with my springs???

 

Those are used primarily on the back of dirt track cars, mainly street stocks to help them with forward bite off the corner. Most dirt track cars with a leaf spring rear run a Chrysler style spring. You could probably make a bushing for your spring or even make your own slider to your Explorer springs, provided you could find the right size bearing.

 

Actually, the more I research it, the more I find people using them on their muscle cars and drag cars. In fact they sell a specific slider set for Camaros.

 

Speedway told me that their Camaro sliders bushing length is 2.560 for a 2 ½" wide spring and the O.D. of the bushing for the spring eye is 1.580.

I've been looking into sliders for my Econoline, but it has 2.25" springs

 

Im going with the Liquid Iron Industries sliders. They have a new universal setup formed from one piece I guess. Ill post pics later tonight when I get off work. They are 12" long with a 9" travel slot. Should be simple to position so that my leafs are never near bottoming out the slider. Here are some direct bolt on ones for a Jeep. http://www.liquidironindustries.com/product.php?productid=18222&cat=0&page=1. Also, they will work with factory spring eye bushings that are 3" wide.

 

Here's what I'm going with. It's the same as what's is shown in the link above but a universal slider. They are $149/pr.

 

I have used them, with great success. They work well, and allow you to get a little more drop out of a lowering job.

 

That's one of the reasons I'm going with the sliders. To me it looks a lot cleaner, and I don't get the extra lift of the shackles. I'll be able to mount these right to the bottom of the frame rails. I'll hang the front eyes a little lower off the bottom of the frame and toe them in a little bit so that the front eyes sit lower than the rear and in about an inch. Hoping it works well. Should have them here on the 1st. I'm gonna try to get the front hangers fabbed up and mounted so I'm ready to install the sliders when they show up.

 

Just watch your final pinion angle. Shim to correct, as necessary.

 

My spring perches are floating on my axle right now. I cut the stock ones off the axle so they can slide in and out on the tube so I can position the springs. Once the sliders get here and I can wrap up the springs. I need to get a new set of spring perches, then I can center my axle on the springs. I'd imagine the easiest way to center it would be to lift the rear of my truck to hang the axle on the mounted springs. position the axle, lower it back down, set pinion angle, tack perches in place. Sounds like it would work.

 

Yup.

 

Started fooling with the rear suspension. I ordered the spring sliders pictured above. Wanted my basic parallel leaf setup to at least be different. So I started fabbing up the front spring hangers while I wait for UPS to bring me my sliders. I realized I'm out of any thick plate for making stuff. So, like I did with the back bumper that used to be on the truck, I had to recycle a part of the original truck back into the build. This time it's the bed side mounted spare tire holder. It's loaded with good OLD 5/16" steel. Giddy up!

I used 3" pieces of 2"x2"x1/8" square tubing between 2 side plates of the 5/16". Then just boxed the backside. Very solid. Once again, I'm seeing how hard it is to make 2 identical parts. But then again, using primitive hand tools like I do, not sure it is really possible. They are good to go though and measure out the same. They will sit half on and half off the bottom of the frame rail. The off portion is inside the frame. I will box in the frame above the hangers and gusset the hangers to both sides of the frame and on the back side of the hanger on the frame rail. Hard to explain but you will see. I won't have the sliders until mid next week. Then next weekend I am going to see Iron Maiden in the bay area on Friday night and up here in Sacramento area Saturday night. So I won't get back on it for at least a week. Here's the start, I'll post pics as I progress. Don't judge until they are finished. Like the front shock towers, they don't look like much until they are finished.

 

You could also hang the front spring eye mount and sliders on the inside of the frame up at the top. Than move the spring perches on the axle closer to the pumpkin, to lower the rear end some....We did that with the S-10 rear that was in the truck. It lowered the rear about five inches, but it still had a hell of a rake. We cut the frame and Z'ed it another six inches and ended up with about two inches of rake. The Jag rear is mounted up in the frame knotches so that the truck ass drags about half an inch lower than the front.

Tack weld your hangers under the frame and set it on it's wheels, you'll see what I mean, the truck will have eight or nine inches of rake and look like something we drove in the 70's with air shocks, yellow slapper bars and tires hanging out of the fenders...

 

With these leaf springs, and the eyes mounted right under the frame rails. It puts my axle travel about as close to the notch of the frame as I want it. I plan on getting a pair of 1" blocks to drop the rear a tiny bit more and run some real short bump stops. If I want to go lower, I would need to notch the frame. I'm trying not to mess with the frame as the Jag rear slides right up in the notch and will be easy to fab the mounts. The sliders alone will get me where I want to be. The shackles, even short ones, would have forced me into some thicker lowering blocks. If you have followed my build, I cut the floor out of the bed and lowered the bed about 4"+. The bed will be shallow with a wood floor. So with the sliders, the 1" lowering blocks, and the bed dropped, it's gonna look pretty low in back. When the front is at ride height, it will be level or 1-2 degrees rake at best.

 

Do the sliders need to be at an angle like that? I've seen pictures with them set flush with the frame and at an angle like the ones you posted, but I can't find anything saying which is correct for what type/purpose of vehicle

 

I read about sliders for about a week. Most you see are not angled like the ones I got. I had asked Liquid Iron Ind. before buying them if they could make me a set without the angle. They clearly said the spring will operate smoother with the angle and that it is the proper way to set them up. So I read more. What I came out of it with, is that I don't know ; ) lol Actually, everything I found is that you are best to set the sliders so that the slot is inline with the spring eyes. Every thread I found about proper setup is that you line up the travel slot of the slider with both spring eyes. So I would think it wouldn't need the angle if both eyes were mounted right to the bottom of the frame rail. I also have a write up on leafsprings and the effects of different setups as far as angles/shackles/blah blah blah. It said the best setup for handling would be to have the front eye lower than the rear eye and inboard an inch or two.
So, if you look at my front mounts, it drops the front eye down below the frame and will be inboard a bit. Then the sliders will mount right to the bottom of the frame rail and the angle in them should line up eye to eye. I may have to shim them to get the angle right but it should be close.

 

Here's one of the pages that give you info on the setup of the sliders.
http://s10racer.com/board/showthread.php?t=1368

The leaf spring sliders can eliminate the up and down movement of the rear spring eye caused by shackles moving through their arcs during suspension travel. Consequently, the rear suspension's loading points displace less during suspension movement. Sliders, depending on their installed angle, generally reduce the shackle effectæ and provide more consistent spring rates than shackles. There is no shackle effect to the rate of the spring when the slider is mounted to point directly at the front spring eye center(this is the preferred mounting position). Since sliders are usually more rigid than shackles, they have less tendency to bind laterally during cornering. In general, sliders improve the handling consistency and predictability of leaf spring equipped race cars

 

What's the noise like on a street car? Do they clunk?

 

Not sure why it would make noise. They sell Camaro specific sliders and I couldn't find anyone complaining about noise.

 

I read a few people saying they made more noise... most of them theorizing that they made more noise, but without actual experience.

1. If you set them up properly, they won't clunk. They should ride on a smooth track and should never reach either end of their travel, thus no thunk.

2. I think most of the noise complaints (all minor) were with respect to the slider sliding/rolling in the track. These are mainly used on race cars, so the exhaust would drown out any noise. I'm sure you can hear something in a quiet street car, but it's probably very minor... or just get a louder exhaust.

 

can anyone think of a reason you couldn't use these on a straight axle with leafs in the front ???

 

Is there any information on the life span of the PVC wear blocks in a street car?

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They don't use regular old PVC for the slider bushings. They are self lubricating UHMW pucks. I can't imagine them ever needing replacing, but for $8, I picked up an extra set of bushing for down the road. Read about the Ultra-high-molecular-weight polyethylene here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-high-molecular-weight_polyethylene

 

It's not much more $ for roller-bearings. That sounds like a better bet than the pucks, no matter what they're made of

 

Leaf springs were common on dirt track cars about 20 years ago. There was a short lived move towards sliders to reduce binding. The polyethylene type were first. Then the roller bearing type was used. After awhile everyone figured out that shackles, poly and roller sliders would all bind! The poly would wear fairly quickly on 2250# cars. I can't imagine they'd last very long on a heavy street car. The roller type were a greasy mess. If I were going to use them, and I'm thinking of doing just that, I'd go with the poly type and figure them to be a routine maintenance item.

 

Well...after all my researching I came out with the understanding that these UHMW bushings are the way to go. I initially was 100% going with the roller bearing sliders. Could not see how they could not be the way to go. Then kept reading how the bearings fail, binds when crap gets in the track... Take it for what its worth. I've never used them. Just a Guy who read a ton and made up his mind on what he thought would work best for his application. Beauty of the sliders, ease of maintenance. Changing pucks if ever needed will take minutes. I could always find some roller bearings that fit and try those.

 

I kept reading about dirt getting in the bearings, but then realized it was mostly SPECULATION. The guys who actually used them said it wasn't a problem. You read about this from actual racers who used them? I'm not planning on mudding, so it shouldn't be a big concern, but still...

 

There's no reason. I read several threads talking about guys having them on the front and rear of their trucks without issue.

 

Well, got the sliders I ordered. Got home from work last night and the box was sitting in the back of my truck, right where one of them will be installed ; ) Then I opened the box!!!!!!!! The photos I posted showing the Liquid Iron sliders does not give a good representation of their size!!!!! These things are fricken huge! What was I thinking??? They are obviously for extreme offroad trucks that still use leafsprings. They are so overkill for my truck it's not even funny. But, they are here, paid for, and will still work I guess. Gonna look kinda goofy on my frame though!

 

glad you posted that pic... I have a local fabricator I use, & was thinking of building my own ( smaller ) version