I just had a thought. A GS engine and gearbox could be a cool basis for a four-wheeled, chain-drive cyclecar. You'd take a chain from each side of the gearbox to an intermediate shaft, and then another on each side to each rear wheel. That way the chains don't get too long. The primary chains would be close together on the gearbox; the secondary chains would be outboard of the seats.
sorta a la honda? erm, might this not equally use Subaru which are plentiful if water-cooled? the hillclimber above is would seem a much simpler and less wasteful use of - not just what GSs are left - but what they offer as a unit. The contemporary open-wheeler formula Vee-like MEP went (from Panhard, i think) to a rear application of the Citroen engine and, afaik, transaxle including the inboard discs holus-bolus ... below something else entirely - found in hard drive while looking (so far unsuccessfully) for more relevant images ...
I was thinking more something open and spidery like a GN. I find that I had a hitherto unidentified image of wooden frame rails in my head ... It could use the Subaru, though it is considerably heavier, especially if one considers the ancillaries****ociated with the cooling system too. And it is twice the capacity, though pretty much the same physical size. But it would make for an insane package. I studied a lot of flat-fours with a view to swopping one into the Minor, some of the Mosquito prototypes of pre-1948 having been so powered. Most flat-fours have a rather inconvenient configuration of exhaust ports for that application. There is one exception, to which I am, however, strangely ambivalent.
Ooooooo, glad to see this thread being added to again. I absolutely love these GNs -kind of like Curtiss Jennies on wheels. I'm a big fan of early big capacity V twin motors, shame HD engines are so expensive. Model A Keith - from what I've gleaned from these boards you Marshall at some of the VSCC events? Can you recommend a few events for seeing this sort of machinery? I love that wooden boat tail Darmont that Bob posted - I believe it's powered by a 1934 Harley. It's like the ultimate 'high end' cycle car - kind of an oxymoron.
More pictures of that Boat Tail here: http://anarchadia.blogspot.com/2009/12/vintage-thing-no55-darmot-or-darmont.html
That's Bob Blackman's blog, which I've followed from time to time. Our tastes - and philosophies - seem to overlap considerably. The French were big on 'high end' cyclecars: Amilcar, Lombard, Salmson, etc. were precisely that, at least in their earlier iterations.
I took this last week at the Castle Museum: It's a 1914 Saginaw. I'll bet you can guess where they were built. -Dave
I really hope that event gets run again. There was a nasty rumor that a group of developers were going to "redevelope the site"....with a bulldozer.
I know this is a bike and therefore only half (or two thirds) relevent, but I thought it worth posting. Say you want to build a classic aircooled cyclecar that looks like it was built in 1919, but your budget doesn't stretch to a proper traditional (why is traditional so f*cking expensive??) GN/Matchless/Harley/J.A.P/Henderson engine, most of us would take somthing easier/cheaper/ probably even more modern and do our best with it. The guys at Cook Custom have done exactly that, and I think the results are worth a look: I'm not normally a fan of choppers but this thing's absolutely beautifully made. The engine is a Honda CB550 with its transmission detached, and mounted to a BMW shaft drive gearbox (with some machining and elbow grease). Neither of these bits are that difficult to get hold of and are well under what you'd pay for somthing more 'typical'. Most of the chopper boys go with the S&S type Big Inch V-twins, I think anywhere between $2000 and $10,000. Reckon you could swipe a CB550 for what, $100 or so if it needed a bit of work? I think the engine being divorced from the transmission is an interesting idea - if we could do the same thing with a bit of inginuity and elbow grease we may be able to mount up a reversing gearbox. Anyhow, I think it's a cool bike! Exposed copper lines, wires running in tubes, 'log' manifold, black paint and plated nickel/polished aluminium go a long way to make that motor fit in. Anyhow, back to the thread.
I think making a longitudinal four out of a transverse four is genius - think of all the power plants it opens up! I like the idea of using a CBX1000 six cylinder motor. Fabricate some new simple-shape rocker covers, paint it black, polish the edgesof the fins, stick some copper in there and voila - a 105hp twin cam Indian-six. Can't imagine CBX motors are cheap though . . .
Or easy to find! Would be good to see more detail of how they chopped the gearbox off the Honda and also how they hooked it to the BMW box.
I've always liked the FN/Indian four/Henderson (and subsequently Sunbeam and Nimbus, using twins) layout of motorcycle despite the problems cooling the rearward cylinders. Most of the earlier examples had transverse gearboxes, though, and chain drive. There have been similar builds using NSU TTS engines: http://www.jockeyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2670 http://virtualindian.org/9techfour.htm I had an idea some years ago for a sort of minimalistic survivalish longbike using a Fiat 126 twin (I've conversely always liked choppers, though for the life of me I can't see the sense in them )
Just been talking to one of our lecturers (who turned up today on his 'new' '47 Velocette - beautiful, has a bevel gear driven OHC. Nothing like the sound of a big single) who was suitably impressed with this. Losing the transmission means you lose the clutch too, so the BMW clutch is probably mounted where the primary reduction gear is. Anybody know how the crank gear is mounted to the shaft? Bolted flange, splines, woodruff key etc? Depending on this kind of mount it might not be too difficult to machine an adaptor plate to take the clutch. Or maybe even remove the gear and turn a boss on it concentric to the shaft, to match a clutch or the flywheel off somthing else, car gearbox etc. Don't know about how you'd get a bell housing to fit it though. Other trouble with directly driving a car box with a bike engine might be the RPM. Don't know - thinking aloud!
Yes, sorry for that. Sandfords are a personal favourite of mine. Radiator grille and very slippery shape really appeal to me. Always thought three wheelers suited themselves to teardrop aerodynamics, this 1926 car epitomises that for me.
For those of you who speak French, the pictures have been half inched from here: http://royalenfieldlesite.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3708&start=45
That CB550 engine is awesome. God, I wish I had a fully equipped machine shop and the skills to make use of it! -Dave
I've had a hankering to build something small, lightweight, three-wheeled. While not a traditional cycle-car per se, more along the lines of modern bike as the rear drive part and simple beam axle with spindle-mount wheels up front. The body would be where the more traditional interpretation comes in... With many modern bikes being liquid cooled and shaft drive, it opens up more possibilities, I think. An Anglia/Pop front beam axle at only 42" wide (spindle-boss to spindle-boss) is one of the narrowest & lightest stock setups around and there are several styles of spindle-mount wheels (granted, most are very modern) available for the Anglia spindle. But a tubular axle can be built in just about any dimension and set up to use any spindles opening up the possibilities. There are many ways to go here. I do really like that CB500 transverse mounted bike though!! Wow!
That photo's fantastic, it's been posted in a few places. Anybody know the date? Some time after 1931 presumeably.
French car law regarding cyclecars I believe imposed a 350kg limit? That Salmson looks a lot of car for 350kg.
I like the look of that. The roof actually ties everything else together, proportionally; makes it look like a car with big, imposing headlights rather than a little car with normal-sized headlights. But would that be Malcolm Sandford leaning on it, I wonder?
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