Let's Talk Cyclecars

ERIC

THE TWO ENGINES ARE VERY DIFFERENT.... LOOK CLOSER

WHEN I CALLED THE SMITHSONIAN DIRECTOR WHAT I'D FOUND HE EXPLAINED TO ME "THERE ARE ONLY FOUR OF THOSE!" MY REPLY .... "NOW THERE ARE FIVE!!!' I FEDEX'D THE PHOTOS TO HIM. THEN NEXT MORNING HE CALLED ME BUT WAS STAMMERING BADLY..... IHAD FOUND AN ENGINE LOST FOR 80 YEARS..... LIFE IS GOOD!!

THIS ISN'T THE SAME ENGINE AS THE GN..........

THEY ALSO TELL YOU THE DRY WEIGHT IS 150LBS... I CARRIED IT AROUND THE SHOP. IN MY ARMS......

IT WAS COOL TO HOLD ONE OF THE FIRST ENGINES TO LEAVE THE GROUND

 

Ah yes, you are correct. I found a pic of the Scaldwell GN with the body off and it's identified as a JAP motor. Quite a few similarities on both. I wonder if one was developed after the other. Curtiss being American and JAP being English makes it unlikely that the companies were linked but those were early days of development. Does anyone know the story?


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Quick check on the net talked about Curtiss helping the British airplane industry with the onset of WWI. Could that be the link?


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ERIC

GO DO A GOOGLE...THAT ENGINE I HAD WAS ONE OF THE VERY FIRST FLY! DID YOU READ MY POST??

DO A GOOGLE ON BOTH ENGINES... I AM SURE THERE BOTH ARE COVERED....

THERE ARE A LOT OF GREAT ENGINES LOST IN THIS WORLD.... I HAS WORKED FINDING RARE AND LOST STUFF SINCE I WAS TEN(10!!) YEARS OLD.

LOOK AT THE VALVE GEAR ON EACH.. ..

AFTER SIXTY YEARS OF DOING THIS I LOK CLOSE AND COUNT RIVITS..... EVEN CLOSER NOW AS MY VISION IS FAILING!

 

WELL COULD BE BUT WWI WAS A FEW YEARS LATER....

THE NET ALSO LISTS A DRY WEIGHT OF MY ENGINE AS 150LBS... HEY I AM BIG/STRONG BUT I WOULD HAVE GUESSED HALF THAT....

 

Bluto. You are right again. I found a small mention of the JAP v8 as 5.1 liter with 38 hp and built between 1908 and 1910 in the Practical Machinist blog.
I'm very interested in the early development of the automobile and how they developed the technology. The Duryea Brothers saw the Benz Victoria at the World's Fair and copied the front axle with spindles. Benz got the idea from a patent that Charles Darwin's father had for a spindled axle for horse drawn wagons and carriages. It was easier on the horses neck.
I imagine that other pioneers of the time were watching new developments closely.


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I found a Jalopnik article that states the Scaldwell car as having a prototype JAP engine that was built in 1909 for the Alliot Verdon Roe triplane. There it is.


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There were only 2 or 3 J.A.P. V8 engines built. One is in Rick Scaldwell's car and another is in a museum in the UK.I asked Ewan Cameron who builds J.A.P. 2 cylinder engines from scratch if thought that the museum would allow him to dis***emble it ,measure it up, and make a new engine from the findings. His reply wasn't very encouraging.

 

Read up a little on the Roe triplane and I guess the engine was tested but never really put in a plane. Roe went with a 35 hp Green 4 cylinder motor.
That's a great shot. Thanks Bob.


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There is a cut away cylinder shown. I wonder if they would allow someone to put a scanning camera in there? I think I read that Scaldwell has the original crank sitting on a shelf.


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If there were only 3-4 V8s made by JAP then what motor is that in the orange and purple racer shown in the video?


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I believe that car has a Curtis OX5 in it.

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Thanks for the info. Web states that there were 12,600 OX5 motors made. That is a little bit more than 3.
Thanks to everyone for setting me straight on this. Lots to learn.


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Erik, thought you might like this.

 

great piece Studebakerjoseph!

 

Another view of a J.A.P. V-8 this one from Gas Balloon.

 

ERIK

SOUNDS LIKE YOUR GETTING UP TO SPEED.
IT'S SO MUCH EASIER NOW WITH ALL THIS INFORMATION OUT THERE ARE YOUR FINGER-TIPS. EVEN WITHOUT SMART PHONES EVERYONE WAS TRYING TO WATCH AND UNDERSTAND THE WORK OF EVERYONE ELSE.

IN ADDITION TO DEVELOPMENT THESE CRAFTSMEN WERE TRYING TO MAKE THEIR FORTUNE TOO AND IN AN EFFORT TO ATTRACT CUSTOMERS ALMOST ALL WERE PUBLISHING THEIR LATEST DISCOVERIES.

IF YOU FIND THE SERVICE DOCS ON OX-5 YOU'LL GET A HINT ON WHY SO MANY WERE BUILT... THEY REQUIRED A LOT OF SERVICE AND REPLACEMENT.
FUNNY YOU MENTION OX-5 BECAUSE WHEN I WOULD DISCRIBE THIS ENGINE OVER THE PHONE PEOPLE WOULD TELL ME IT WAS AN OX-5 THAT I HAD.

FAR FROM IT..... THIS LUMP IS SMALLER/LIGHTER AND FAR LESS POWERFUL THAN THE ENGINES DEVELOPED LATER. THERE WAS AND ARE PROGRESSIONS OF DEVELOPMENT. I'D SIT AND LOOK AT THIS THING AND HONESTLY TRY TO UNDERSTAND JUST HOW F'N BRAVE THESE GUYS WERE TO GET OFF THE GROUND WITH THESE THINGS.

I'LL DO MOST ANYTHING AS LONG AS MY **** IS PLANTED IN A SEAT ON THE GROUND WHEELS TOUCHING THE EARTH (MOST OF THE TIME) BUT HONEST I HATE TO CLIMB A 6FT STEP LADDER

THERE IS A LARGE MODEL OF A JENNY HANGING A FEW FEET FROM MY DESK HERE.... GEORGE RAND ONCE TOLD ME THAT THE STRUT WIRE WAS SO COMPLICATED THAT PEOPLE WOULD SAY "YOU COULD TURN A PIGEON LOOSE AND THEY COULDN'T FLY OUT"
WE ARE LUCKY THAT DEVELOPMENT HAPPENDED AT ALL. AND THAT MANY EARLY PLANES WERE ABLE TO GLIDE LIKE A KITE AS LONG AS THE ENGINE WAS ATTACHED AND SORTTA IN PLACE. THINGS WOULD GO WRONG AND THE GROUND WAS FAR BELOW AND MANY TIMES UNFORGIVING. AND OFTEN COVERED WITH TREES!

 

Studejoe- A time machine would come in handy. I read that the Gov was selling surplus engines for as low as $20. They are a little more pricey now.
The Duryea Brothers would also go to the library to see the latest tech shown in Scientific American magazine while they developed their first car. I'm old enough to know what it's like to spend hours in the library doing research.
The Roe triplane that I mentioned had wires to warp the center wing for turning. That must have been fun.
The histories of the early auto pioneers like Karl Benz, Nicholas Otto, Haynes, Miller, etc. are quite fascinating to read. They had to solve many problems that we take for granted and they didn't have a clear path ahead. How to get fuel into the cylinder and the right timed spark were some huge hurtles to get over. But once the market grew it had lots of contributors and spe******ts.

 

ERIK

HAVE YOU AN EARLY COPY OF ''****S" LOTS OF INFO ON EARLY OBJECTS INCLUDING THE OX-5 AND HOW TO BUILD CARS ... THEY ARE EASY TO FIND AND HONESTLY GIVE YOU AN IDEA HOW PEOPLE WERE DRAWN INTO ALL THIS STUFF. I THINK I HAVE WORNOUT AT LEAST THREE COPIES IN MY LIFE.

IT IS VERY HARD TO ACTUALLY DRIVE AN EARLY AUOMOBILE AT SPEED BUILT IN THE LATE 1800'S. THE FIRST TIME I DROVE MY OLDEST CAR A WHEEL FELL OFF.... I REMEBER THINKING "I'VE WORKED TO GET THIS RUNNING SO LONG AND NOW IT'S GONNA HURT ME!!?" WELL IT DIDN'T JUST CAME TO A EASY REST AS I PRAYED.....

IT DIDN'T TAKE LONGTO FIGURE OUT THAT HUMANS DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH HANDS TO DRIVE IT, HONEST.....

BELOW IS MY "VICTORY PHOTO" AFTER NOTICING THAT BOTH HUB NUTS TURNED LEFT I ISOLATED THE ONE NUT SO IT WOULDN'T UNWIND AND CONTINUED DOING IT'S DEVELOPMENT
BUT HONESTLY I REMEMBER THE WHEEL LEAVING LIKE IT WAS YESTERDAY!

YOU CAN FIND THESE MUCH CHEAPER AT USED BOOK STORES RATHER THA ANTIQUE BOOK SUPPLIERS.... THEY SHOW UP ON EBAY ALL THE TIME.

****s Automobile and gasoline engine encyclopedia

 

Wow! That's pretty cool. Very low for such an early car. What is it?
I'm not familiar with ****s.

I have a very early front solid axle with spindles that have axle stubs for a large wood spoke wheel. I have thought of making a horseless carriage from that and electric power. The Amish still make big spoke wheels at very reasonable prices. And tiller steering is the way to go!


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....and living in Portland Powell's Books is just around the corner.

 

Actually, just down the street.

If I Google "****s" I'll have to clear my browser history.


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CHEAPEST WOODEN WHEELS AND TIRES YOU CAN GET ARE USED MODEL T'S

I STARTED POSTING HERE WHEN PEOPLE CALLED MY GODDEU A CYCLE CAR. IT WAS ACTUALLY A TEST BED FOR HIS AUTOMOTIVE IDEAS.
NOW SITS IN A MUSEUM IN HOLLAND. I SOLD IT BECAUSE I COULDN'T GET ANY MORE SINGLE-TUBE TIRES TO FIT IT.

YOU JUST CLICK ON THE LINK TO GET THE GOOGLE SEARCH.

OR LOOK ON EBAY FOR ****S. THE INFO WAS UPDATED IN ****S FROM TIME TO TIME SO YOU'LL NEED TO LOOK THRU EACH TO SEE IF THE STORIES INTEREST YOU.

HERE'S THE ENGINE AND GEARBOX



AND IN THE BACK OF MY TRUCK ON THE WAY TO A "TOYS FOR TOTS" SHOW

 

If you are into 1890's cars you need a copy of Horseless Carriage Days by Hiram Percy Maxim. Photos are great. Bob

 

BOB

YOUR UP LATE!!

 

That Percy book has been on my want list along with The Miller Dynasty. I found ****s Auto Encyclopedia on eBay. How did I miss this? I'm off to Powell's this weekend.

PS. That tricycle with a couch is SO Portland.


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I QUIT GOING DOWNTOWN WHEN THE WINOS AND ******S TOOK OVER..... I SUSPECT THAT HAS CHANGED BY NOW..... BET PORTLAND IS MORE "SEATTLE" NOW

THERE ARE SO MANY GOOD ONLINE BOOK SELLERS....

 

https://www.zwischengas.com/de/FT/f...bil-der-Kleinstauto-Evergreen-aus-Hessen.html
Sorry the article is in german language

 

They are for sale by auction beginning of February ln Paris


https://www.zwischengas.com/de/news...0a2402&utm_source=ZGCM&utm_term=Mehr erfahren

 

SORRY THIS ONE IS IN SWEDISH., BUT WITH ENGLISH SUB***LES