Let's Talk Cyclecars

I wonder how long that engine lasted.

 

In 1974 I had a Panhead,and the Engine was fantastic.

 

Yes but you didn't have a flywheel , pressure plate and axial thrust applied to it. Most cases of using a Harley engine like this in a car resulted in many broken cranks.

 

The modern version of the Morgan seems to survive quite well with its S & S engine (H-D in disguise) and the 88 Twin Cam B powered street dragster that I built some years ago did not have any problems.

Roo

 

1927 Douglas 600cc engine Queensland Australia

 

Morgan had to put a thrust bearing between the clutch and crankshaft and a "compensator" to absorb the engine pulses. The compensator is now destroying itself. Without it the engine pulses destroyed the MX5 gearbox. The toothed drive belt would rip out too.
http://www.talkmorgan.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/484991/7
A long history of faults in that driveline.

 

Well, last that I heard, that car was on it's fifth owner--and the same engine. The Pan was only a temporary engine, until I built a stroker Knuckle. Then we moved and fixing a 1875 house took over priority, and more kids came along. The two in the photo are now 54 and 58. The car was supposed to be like a Morgan trike--but it was too heavy (and too well built) . Incidentally, see the black "tab" hanging out benieth the spare? That's a cut down Servi-car bumper. One time I had the thing up on two wheels far enough to grind the bottom corner off the other side ---Those were the days----

Herb Kephart

 

Hi Herb It's a small world I was talking to Doug yesterday via email Daren from Sydney Australia

 

Hi Daren!

Back to the car, which I called the TWA (for Three Wheeled Abortion)
Clutch thrust was taken care of by changing the drive side main to a face to face tapered roller bearing (early K model main), then came flywheel, clutch and 4 speed all syncro trans. from a 170 Mercedes. Driveshaft went between seats to a modified tail rotor gear box from a Sikorsky to turn the drive sprocket. Car drove like it had too much flywheel, which it did, but that might have saved the driveline. Engine was mounted on one side of an aluminum firewall, transmission to the other. By removing the firewall (which bolted to the front of the frame) the whole drive was accessible. I have photos of all this, but can't find them on this D****D pooter.

Herb

 

Fortunately, I can find images on my 'pooter!
The overbuilt (for a Morgan) chassis:

TWA-001 by kephartd posted Apr 25, 2020 at 1:57 PM

Engine, firewall, and Mercedes 170 transmission:

TWA-002 by kephartd posted Apr 25, 2020 at 1:57 PM

Steering components from the Mercedes 170 also:

TWA-003 by kephartd posted Apr 25, 2020 at 1:57 PM

-Doug

 

Do you know the ratio of that TRG? I've been looking for something like that, a 1:1 Magic 8" Cube with 1001 uses. I might post a thread if I can get it on-topic enough.

 

Ned, have you thought of or looked at outboard motor gear drives?

 

Very nice Herb! Thanks!

 

Thanks, but it seems the ratios hover around 2:1.

 

Herb, you did what is needed to save the crank.
I know of one guy that used a Saab or was it a Subaru right angle drive box for the chain drive. I can find out more if you need it.
My old Morgan has too much flywheel too and with a crashbox shifting is tricky.

 

Someone on Fb was trying to id this engine

 

Many cars had front suspensions with transverse leaf springs, but typically just one; might be at the top or bottom. These were functionally an integrated spring/A-arm. In some, the uprights rotated when steering. The Morris Minor is like this, except the upper link is a lever shock, rather than a spring, which is a torsion bar connected to the bottom link. (See diagram.) In some, the uprights were anchored against rotation by the spring, and had kingpins near the bottom, on which the spindles were mounted. Fiat Topolinos (pic with red gearbox) was like this, and was ubiquitous in post-war Formula 3 race cars. Other cars with non-rotating uprights, spring-on-bottom include '50s Fiat 500/600 and prewar Studebakers. And AC/ Cobra, with spring-on-top.

It appears the arrangement shown above has a rotating upright for steering; the bottom spring attachment probably has a bearing. Same at top, or the vertical tubular section of the upright could be arranged like a typical McPherson strut (connected on top to spring, rather than the body).

View attachment 4661002

 

Did you mount an automotive type flywheel and clutch directly on the HD crank output end, or was there a belt/chain drive to the transmission?

 

Sizare Naudin used that upper & lower spring setup as early as 1908 with their New York to Paris entrant, and later in these Cyclecars.
Bob

 

The BSA three wheeler had a similar front suspension with front wheel drive.

 

There was an adapter with a support bearing on the engine side of the flywheel. The bellhousing was bolted to a 1/4" aluminum plate (just like the motor mount plate in most dragsters) and a thick aluminum adapter originally intended to put a H-D engine on a VW transaxle mounted to the front side of the plate with the engine attached to it. The support bearing was mounted to the 1/4"plate. By spacing everything correctly we were able to use the stock Toyota flywheel, clutch and transmission.

Roo

 

Is that a R154 or a steel-midplate W58? I'd say both are a good bit stronger than the Mazda box in the Morgan.

 

Desmodromic

If you were referring to my car, there was a turned steel adapter that mated the HD tapered shaft to the engine side of the Mercedes flywheet

The front suspension. This was taken from the Mercedes also. cross spring top and bottom with some leaves removed . On the Merc. the two springs were about 9" apart, I moved them farther to mount on the top and bottom of the frame. Mounted at the spring ends was a vertical pin, with a steering knuckle rotating on it (like Morgan), I made new, longer 4130 steel pins with the spindles at the bottom, and an aluminum spacer taking up the extra length. At the bottom of the spacer there was a pulley to wrap the brake cable around.

Wheels were VL Harley, used ones in this photo, but 4 new old stock VL when the car was finished. Eventually I converted the front brakes to hydraulic with Plymouth (or maybe Dodge) single ended wheel cylinders





Steering was Fiat 500 (the aircooled one). (Sorry DK) Also shown here was the method of starting. Since oil is fed into this end of the Harley flywheel assy, I had to move the starting shaft to one of the timing gears,. Starting the thing was a bit of a grunt, since one turn of the crank equaled two turns of the flywheels. Planned improvements that never happened were a much longer crank.and also an electric starter mounted on the transmission with reversed rotation and Bendix drive (common on US farm tractors ) but space for drivers feet wasn't all that ample. Crank engagement was disengaged same way any car with crank start was. Oil tank was other side of firewall, passengers side, with aircraft flexible oil lines.




Finally, a shot of the TWA when the third owner had it. Dual exhausts, and gorkey front fender lights--maybe for NY inspection. Paint color OK but the "pin striping" didn't add anything. Owners business of selling BMW's is the round circle behind the seat. This owner sometime after he sent the color pix contacted me and asked me to build him another, and in payment he would give me a motorcycle that I never wanted, and that was worth about $600 at that time, Some people-------------

 

Great to see you back on the HAMB, Herb- hope you are well!!!

 

The transmission and the rear end both came out of a Toyota pick up. I chose that because of the drop out third member and the fact that the bolt pattern is the same as small Ford (4.5")

Roo

 

The Beast of North Carolina or "just because you can..." ?
This popped up on my local CL. Scant details and no title.

https://asheville.craigslist.org/cto/d/blowing-rock-replica-1913-fiat-roadster/7115478902.html

 

Interesting- wonder what the chassis/drivetrain is from???

 

If it's 28 litres it's OK. Just watched the real Beast video Monday night.

 

Yeah, the chassis and running gear could have value. Parallel leaf front end and wire wheels. 6 cyl. could be Chev, Dodge, ??

I love when the Beast of Turin fires up (literally) and sort of jumps off the ground in the video I saw.

 

This showed up in the Traditional Images thread: