Technical Logan lathes? School me - 1st metal lathe

thoughts about this one?

HARDINGE MODEL DSM-59 SUPER PRECISION LATHE

 

Is the auto feed worth having? not sure id really like to sit and turn things by hand - also - be ncie to have a near mirror finish as some things i plan on working will ride on oil seals.. I could prob polish em but be nice to have less chatter/tool marks to smooth out-

alot like this:

 

Where's the tool post? If that's all there is, this one was set up for one specific operation and that's probably all it can do.

And auto-feed is definitely worth having and a must-have for quite a few operations.

 

My buddy had an OLD compressor in his shop, still had a brass WPA plate on it from WWII. That was the one his shirt tail got caught up in. I walked in as it happened, it he wasn't 6'3" and a solid 280 he'd be dead. Took the shirt off him and he didn't budge a bit.

 

Auto feed is an essential to get nice finishes and there should be something that kicks it out. Some lead screws had an adjustable turret stop on them. I got spoiled early on by Hardinge lathes and the precision can't be beat. Single-pointing threads is a cinch.

 

As it sits, its useless. These lathes were built as a platform for various specialized attachments, most of which are lever operated. Fully tooled with cross slides and a turret in place of the tailstock, its only useful if you want to make a few hundred of some relatively simple part or to do 2nd operations on some previously semi finished part.

Here's one with a turret, cross slide, and lever operated collet closer. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hardinge-D...778418?hash=item2a9c87e632:g:2oMAAOSwkrFaWR7D

If you want to knock out a thousand small spacers or bushings, it'll do that efficiently once its set up for the job. OTOH, if you want to chuck up some single simple part and modify it by facing the end or turning the OD down a bit, its still useless for that sort of work that's normally done on an engine lathe.

 

One other thought on the original Logan you linked to. The west coast is the most difficult place in the US to find home shop size lathes. If that lathe is in even reasonably good condition (not great condition) then it would sell at that price in just a few days at the most. The listing says its been up for a month, and that says more about the actual condition than anything the seller may say about it.

The first thing you soon learn when shopping for used machine tools that they all either came from a school where they were lightly used and maintained like a Ferrari, or they only cut aluminum or plastic and have no wear whatsoever. The 2nd thing you learn is that people lie a lot.

 

I have a South Bend 13x60 that I could be talked out of reasonably . Just a real SOB to move . I use it all the time . Just thinking about upgrading to a LaBlond .

 

The first lathe I ran after trade school was a LaBlond.
Don't recall how old it was but many of our machines had military tags on them.

 

This is my Logan. Wish it had a quick change box & and a clutch. Other than that I love it.

 

That's a true story. When I was looking to buy a metal lathe, I watched CL and the want ads religiously for months. Not many turned up, and the ones I could afford all had flaws even my untrained eye could spot. The closest I came to buying one was an ancient pre-WWII one that used a leather drive belt, didn't have bearings in the headstock (bushings instead), and would have needed a forklift to move. I eventually bought a new HF lathe, which as it turned out was the twin to the unit that Grizzly sold but for a third less money. I bought the HF unit on the recommendation of the local high school shop teacher as it was the same unit they had. He said it could take the abuse the kids gave it and still turn out good parts. I've never regretted the purchase.

Unfortunately, HF no longer sells the larger lathes, and prices have gone up on them since I bought mine for $1500 new.

 

Thanks! Does the one posted have auto feed? doesnt look like it but very cool. Is that spinning lever collet head the quick change box mentioned by akoutlaw?

Also curious why west coast is tough on smaller lathes - that just seems quite odd in a world full or transportaion and goods - is hardinge from the UK ?

 

I don't use my machines near as often as I once did, but value having them when I do need them,it's just that at 80, I no longer solicit work, and won't take on a job that requires me to buy any new tooling. I have a big old 1942 Monarch 16 CW that swings about 19 inches, with a 2 axis DRO, a couple of Sheldons that "one of these days" I'll resurrect, a Bridgeport 9X50 with 3 axis DRO and power feed, also 3 axis, along with associated drill presses, etc.
Having 50+ years in the trade, I think I can be confident enough to comment here Later today I'll be at my shop and I'll write down the title and author of a book I highly recommend to accompany a Machinist's Handbook, and I believe it's still available from Alibris. It's a 2 volume set that I was required to buy way back when I entered a 2 year course in a GA Technical school. First volume covered bench work and lathe work and second volume mostly milling machine, etc. Will post title, etc. here on this thread.
Lots of good info here, and all I'll say about choice of lathe brands is I'd leave the Atlas and it's Craftsman clone alone and save my money to buy better when you find it. They are better than nothing, but that's about it Yahoo has brand specific user's group for many machine tools, Practical Machinist is excellent, and also good are Home Shop Machinist and Home Machinist.
Brig rat, I know what you're saying about time to clean up, and my Monarch has chips in the bed right now. But please, NEVER LAY A FILE ON THE WAYS OF ANY MACHINE TOOL

 

Most informative thread.Thanks for posting.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

 

My guess is the west coast doesn't have the same manufacturing base like the Midwest and east coast. We've got aircraft and used to have shipbuilding, but Boing doesn't surplus stuff all that often and since they've closed their surplus store, that avenue is now closed. Boing surplus was a great place to buy tooling, I'd go up there at least once a year. A lot of what you do find is higher-tech stuff (CAD-CAM and DRO) and that usually prices it out of reach for the hobbyist.

There are a few used equipment dealers who specialize in used machine tools at good prices, but they're rarely located around here and shipping will eat you alive.

Most people I know with lathes got them by word-of-mouth or by 'knowing' somebody, they just don't show up on the open market that often.

 

Yeah, the Hardinge on ebay also is a "second operation" lathe, with no leadscrew, tool post etc., so not very useful for the home shop.
They are made in the US, and there were Taiwanese copies made under the brand name "Feeler" and possibly others. Even the Taiwanese copy is a really good lathe.

 

No power feed on that one either. The turret moves fore and aft via the long handle sticking out front and you can set it so it indexes from one tool to the next as its moved to the full outboard position.

The handle near the headstock on the left end is for the collet closer. A quick change gearbox is like the picture of the Craftsman that shows a couple levers and a series of holes they can be placed into, along with the table of feeds and threads on the plate above. Any lathe that doesn't have a quick change will have a set of change gears which you place onto the geartrain at the left end of the headstock to change the various cutting feeds or thread pitches. A quick change gearbox is probably the most time saving option a lathe can have. Fortunately, unless its something really old and basic, most every engine lathe will have a QC box.

Basically, you can look at any lathe, and if it doesn't have a leadscrew then its not anything useful for a hobbyist or home shop.

Machining is a relatively young industry on the west coast as compared to the New England states and a line running from PA across thru OH, MI, IN, and IL. The longer any industry has been active in a given area, the more used equipment will be available as thousands of small shops replace and modernize the stuff they're using.

Hardinge is based in Elmira NY. Today their primary business is collets and accessories for work holding and the manufacture of CNC lathes and machining centers.

 

My old boss would've kicked someone's ass if they had left a file on a lathe or mill.
Then he'd wing the offending tool across the shop. You better pray you weren't in the line of fire.

 

Brig rat, I know what you're saying about time to clean up, and my Monarch has chips in the bed right now. But please, NEVER LAY A FILE ON THE WAYS OF ANY MACHINE TOOL

And I thought just taking the key out of the chuck before the photo shoot would be suffice, you guy's are never happy! That's what happens when your self taught...........................................................

 

I remember running an old Cincinnati H-mill that had a tag that read " Department of Defense, Pontiac motor Division"..... Kinda made me proud to be running that old Mill.....

 

Once again thanks for the gr8 info chaps. So another silly question - is it safe to say that a lathe with a thread diagram has a lead screw?

Dirty old man: Thanks for that - I have a copy of the 1909 American Machinists Handbook and one or 2 others ill be studying.

Is the logan lathe (school room type) an option to look at? Im on a very tight budget (1k max) so options are pretty slim - ill be waiting for a deal tho...

 

Yes a lathe with a thread and feed chart would most always have a leadscrew. But its real simple to know if the lathe has a leadscrew or not. The leadscrew is a big coarse thread screw running the length of the front of the lathe bed. Look at the pics of the Logan or Craftsman and you'll see it. Look at the pic of the Hardinge 2nd op lathe, and there's nothing in that area but blank space.

 

Whats about the craftsman lathes, and logan, theres a craftsman for 950 - theyre ok as options? its my first one so obviously all the gr8 advice here will help me avoid buying the wrong thing but it wd take me years to even have a reference of a "good" lathe vs not good

 

The flat ways of the Atlas and Craftsman don't have the beef to support taking any real cuts, and they just don't have the rigidity to do much.

 

The little Craftsman/Atlas lathe is a very good little lathe, but underline little. There are tons of tooling available for in on the net. It’s a good one to learn on and play with and they are easy to install and are 120 single phase. If after a couple of years you decide it’s too small and you probably will, keep your eye out for the holy grail and then put the little Craftmans up for sale. I’ve got an Atlas lathe and use it three times as much as my 19X80 LeBlond. Most of the guys condemning the Craftsman are trying to do too large of job on it. It’s a good machine for small jobs that it was built to do.

Bones

 

So the logan lathe could work out as an initial first time low budget purchase? $750 -

 

By all means, a very good lathe to start out on. But remember it’s 3phase, you will have to overcome that someway, as mentioned in other threads.

Bones

 

Be sure to check it out, see if everything turns, will engage and move and disengage. With out measuring tools the average guy can’t tell if the ways have a few thousands wear, but most lathes do. That is something you will learn to live with. But do check them to see if you can see wear, if you can “see” the wear or damage, you may want to reconsider. A long straight edge can help.

Bones

 

I am curious why the tailstock is a different color ?
See if there is a tool post included.

 

Be careful on the Craftsman lathes, there are the Atlas made one and the smaller Dunlop 109 which aren’t as stout and aren’t even allowed to be talked about on the machining websites.


Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app