Technical Loose rocker

Do you think it’s a cam wiped out ?

 

Yea they fired it and broke it in . I installed it in late fall and it had a miss. I quit fooling with it till a few days ago. It set all winter

 

Before you buy anything take enough of this apart to see what happened. At least take both rockers on #6. Could be the cam, most likely it is, but from the pictures and camera angle it looks like the rockers could be self-aligning yet it also looks like perhaps a pushrod guide plate on #7. Those two things are either / or, not both. Which is correct is based on the head design. When you remove the rockers from #6 ,please post a front and side view. You will need a retro-fit roller cam if you decide to go that way. Nothing cheap in that sentence.

 

I certainly wouldn't go any further on disassembly until your engine builder tells you. Let them make the decision.

 

If they dyno'ed it, and broke it in, then it's on them.... But the time frame (warranty) might come into play..... Don't mess with anything until you've been on the phone with them-PERIOD!

 

Like others have said, I wouldn't touch it until the builder takes a look at it. I'd bet there's a flat lobe.

Show us the dyno sheet they gave you. If they didn't give you one I'd suspect it was never done. They probably fired it up long enough to see if it ran, and then called it good.

All those round numbers on the invoice are suspect, and to me indicate you may have been farcked on more than one level.

This is why I always build my own, after diligently checking the work of the machine shop after I get machined parts back. It gives me pretty much complete control of, and responsibility for, what happens.

 

Take the oil filter off and take it to your engine builder. When they cut it open, it will tell the story.

 

This is what I got for a dyno sheet, and a little short video of the engine on the dyno with the builder reving the engine lightly. I wasn’t too happy about that because I asked for them to call me when they dyno it.

 

Call the engine builder .

did they know about the miss “ since day 1” ?

I would not touch a single screw , look , surmise , guess , think , ponder , pine , or yern for any kind of answer until you speak with the builder .

As far as warranty , i assume your out by time , but if you can prove you have not put any real miles or hours on the engine other then installing and attempting to tune it . A reputable shop should come to bat and at least cover some of the repair .

In my shop and line of work the faster a customer screams about warranty the faster they get an answer and a resolution . The more time you let pass and not getting in contact the harder it will be to get an answer .


The engine shop we deal with we have had a couple of minor issues since Covid and parts availability has become an issue and they are sourcing parts from different vendors. But they are quick to act when I have an issue . Last one was an oil pump on a new rebuild and they where on site in my shop with new parts and tools and had me fixed up in less then 24 hours from the time I made my first call .


Point I’m trying to make ?

CALL THE BUILDER!!

 

IMO, don't screw with it anymore -wait until you get in touch with the engine dudes and let THEM tell you what the problem(s) are. If its sitting with no oil to the rockers and then you spin it and stop before its had time to pump up, you have friction all across unless you put some oil on them before cranking. If they see anything else other than the one, they're coming back to you with finger pointing. And a roller cam has lobes also, it too depends on a correct break in period.

 

Yes, according to the evidence in the pictures. All the adjusting nuts look fairly even in height as do the valves except for the the #8 intake and maybe a couple of others that are barely starting to open or are almost closed. The push rod end of the #6 intake rocker arm is significantly lower than the rest. There are no metal shards or other evidence of a destroyed trunnion. To check if it was a bent push rod you could twirl it between your thumb and fingers and see if the top end would make circles or ellipses or bind. (It would take a pretty severe bend to drop the rocker arm that far.) By pressing down on the back of the rocker arm and taking up the slack with your thumb, then bumping the motor over, you should be able to get a pretty fair idea of how far the cam is lifting rocker arm. Your cam card says the lobe lift is .320" or about 1/3 of an inch.

 

What sort of engine builder were they?
Some get the basic engineering correct, and some just throw some shiny hotrod parts at the engine because the customer wants to see some bling to justify the cost.

This below looks questionable , the posi-locks look like they are contacting the rockers [red lines]
Both the rockers on #6 are out of alignment over the valve tips [blue lines], so you need to inspect #6 exhaust as well [I would be inspecting all of them]

 

It may just be the picture, but it looks like the #6 intake spring has a little more distance between the coils than the rest.

 

I guess I need to have someone explain this to me. Would you care to?

 

In the first post the roller are half of the valve stems . the guides are wrong or some thing .
or its super super loose . That loose and it had to be clattering like hell not just a miss .

It came off the dyno with a miss ??

If the locks are still tight to the studs and the lifter is not collapsed or a pus rod bent , then the cam is now bad .
What's the oil and a cut open filter look like? the way to rockers are not centered .

Id be looking at the push rods first .

 

An overhead valve engine with a camshaft in the block can be solid flat tappet, hydraulic flat tappet, solid roller tappet, or hydraulic flat tappet. On each one a tappet follows the cam profile; all them have a break-in procedure. If not properly performed the camshaft or its tappets can be ruined leaving metal particles in the engine.
The engine in question needs to be disassembled, cleaned, and inspected.

 

I called him today and sent him the video of me cranking the engine a few seconds while disabling the ignition, he said probably wiped the cam. Bad parts from the manufacture

 

I have family, friends and co workers that know the vehicle hasn’t moved

 

They always say that to "kick the can down the road", [It is NEVER THEIR FAULT]
But if they knew what they're were doing they could identify some of the problems before installing the 'bad parts'

Don't argue with him ,just try and get him to fix the issue.

 

What is he going to do to fix it? I’m not that impressed with the dyno numbers that thing put up. Another thing I see also is the nuts are hitting the rockers for the adjusters, that needs to be addressed.

 

Might consider the famous "second opinion" from a qualified mech. or respected builder. Sometimes it works, others it just gets the guy mad that you went to someone else. Mad or no, if I had the $$$ gone and in his hands with a piece of crap sitting in mine, I wouldn't care.

 

Won’t hold water.
Find out what they will do since they told you “ya cam went flat”.
They should tell you (if they take responsibility) they will tear it down, flush and clean it out, and put it together.
Now let’s just hope it was an oversight on putting a stud in and it came loose. Let’s hope the RA backed off, etc.

But you need to be the one to ask them the hard questions to ensure the end result is what you expect.

 

It's a common turn of phrase to say 40 over, meaning 0.040". Don't bust the guy's balls for using a common hot rod phrase.

I investigate failures for a living. There are very few installers/assemblers in any industry who would admit the fault may be theirs, whether it is or not. People at the technician level often give an explanation that points the blame away from them. Don't buy it until you have proof that they did their job correctly.

I didn't look at the parts used in detail, but for some Comp flat tappet cams they recommend lighter springs for break-in. Did they do all the recommended steps on break in, and can they prove that? As others have said, are the poly locks installed correctly or are they interfering with the rocker arms? Look for other signs that they didn't do their job correctly. If the cam went flat, the whole thing needs to be disassembled and all passages cleaned to get any metal out. This could be a big bill and hopefully the engine builder will take some responsibility and help you solve the issue.

Unfortunately many issues like this have resulted in the customer going to a new engine builder to solve their issue. Best of luck.

 

With the back of the rocker drooping like it is the problem has to be between the rocker and the cam.

 

So you're the guy who's been following me around

 

As Ted Knight in Caddy Shack says=Well?

 

I'd bet that the push rods aren't hardened for guide plates and the rockers are scrubbing the guide plates. Take that rocker off that is angled.

 

Looking at the dyno sheet they didn’t spool it up as tight as I do mine. Looks like it started missing or popping and they backed out of it and called it a day. It’s a small cam and with the lobe separation @110 it’s far from choppy so they would easily tell if it was missing. I’m guessing they didn’t break it in before they did the pull on it.