Technical Lowering Read on 49 Ford Options?

So, I've been searching the web, reading lots, and finding lots of good info on this forum. I think I've nailed down the best options for me on the front of the car, but the back I'm still not sure.

I teach high school auto shop. We are just about to pick up a 1949 Ford sedan. We want to lower it a few inches (not exactly how far yet) and we are on a backyard mechanic budget. And it's kinda fun trying to do things like they did in the old days. That said, we've looked at blocks, shackles, and doing spring flips, or removing leafs. All 4 options are cheap or free, but we're not sure what is best for us? I figured removing or flipping a leaf would be best. And free.

What would you guys think? We're just trying to get it driving again and then a little lower for good looks.

 

Blocks! 1,2 or 3 inch... no guesswork.

 

If you only want to drop it a few inches in the back, put 3" or 4" blocks in and you're done.

You'll have to join the shoebox forum to read this, but here's a lot of ideas about what to to and how to do it. All things shoebox...

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/post-shoebox-build-threads-here.908390/

 

O,K, Teacher. What about this. Leverage. Lowering blocks are old school for sure. Your 49 Ford has a stick shift in it I'm****uming. You also have 65 year old springs. I'll bet you'll have a new problem to sort out. If your not aware of it I'd also bet your next move would be to install a new clutch. De-Arched springs are a much better way to go and will make you look like you know what your doing.
The Wizzard

 

Do not flip front spindles, it gives you very negative caster. I used lowering(or cut a coil or 2 out) springs for the front. This will give you neg camber, but if you mill the slots in the frame for the upper arm bolts and slide them to where you need them you will have the proper camber. Caster end up about 1 degree positive. Rear use lowering blocks. My tracks and drives great. I also installed HD frt and rr sway bars later.

 

What about lowering blocks for the front? That's been my budget choice for 49-51 Fords. 1" blocks do 2-1/4" at the fender if I remember right.
The Wizzard

 

how do they work? I've heard of using Ibeam to raise the front end with IFS but not lowering blocks...

 

On 49-51 Ford's the lower A-Frame has the coil spring seat riveted to the bottom side of each arm. You remove the rivets and put a piece of 1" square bar stock between them and re****emble with grade 8 bolts. Changes nothing but ride height and a little camber adjustment.
The Wizzard

 

Good info so far guys, I appreciate it.

So, as far as lowering a classic car goes, that is new for me. One thing I cannot really find much info on is shackles vs blocks. The place I'm already being other parts from has 2" drop shackles. I know I have read cons about using blocks and how it messes with the rear geometry. That's why I was thinking modifying the spring itself would be better.

As far as flipping spindles or cutting springs goes, I looked into both. Both seemed pretty legit. I know that people who flipped spindles had to make other modifications to adjust the camber. I've got a full metal shop at my disposal for this project, so we've got lots of fabrication resources.

And as far as replacing the clutch, that will go on the other long list of things we have to look into. It is a full project. So, once reason we're on a tight budget is because we'll be spending most of what we have on"needs" instead of "wants".

 

Not my pic, found this on the hamb. Fenton use to sell blocks for the front, Butch's hotrod parts still does. Like mentioned before, thick wall 1" square tubing works just as well.

 

Here is a photo and a fact. Longer shackle plates won't work on this project. The spring eye is above the mount point and only has minimum clearance to bottom of frame. You can't use them.
Do Not flip the spindle supports. Just look at one and do the Math. You'll see why. Also Do Not use Sq. tube as in photo. Just think about that and look at that photo above.
Replacing the clutch was a in reference to the reaction to 3 or 4 inch lowering blocks, not a bad clutch. It's all about the leverage created by tall blocks.
Understand??
The Wizzard

 

Here is another approach. I do it quite often. Just food for thought. All it takes is some lay out, a tape measure and a welder. No Voo Doo involved here.
The Wizzard

 

I've never ever heard of rear lowering blocks messing with rear geometry.....kripes, they have been in use on 49 Fords and Chevys since 1949....! I've had lowering blocks on nearly all my early (post 49) cars. Currently I'm running 3" blocks on my shoebox and 2" on my mid 50s Merc with NO noticeable change in handling or ride....

 

Assuming the rear axle sit inside the leaf springs you use lowering blocks, De arch existing leafs, or remove the middle springs 2 the most,on my 38 I removed 2 leafs and added a 3" lowering block being that the rear end did not sit centered to the wheel well opening I fabricate a 3/8" plate ,drill and tap for a Grade 8 Allen as a a pin and a offset hole for the pin on the spring

 

So, what would be approximate drop be from removing one of the rear leafs?

What about flipping springs? Read about that a bit as well. Removing a leaf and flipping it over on the other side. Kinda like shown here-

I guess I'll add, how does "flipping" compare/contrast with just removing a spring. \

Also, I saw a video of guys dearching springs with a pipe bender. We have a large one, but I'd rather not dive into something that takes that much experience.

 

Yep easiest and no guess work. ^^^^^

 

Wow. You're overthinking this whole thing. My '50 has 3" blocks in the rear. Rides fine, sits fine.

 

Seems like everyone is looking for a 20 dollar cure for a 10 cent problem.

 

Blade58; Sounds to me like your talking about a Chevvy. You can not create Spring Wrap on a closed drive unit.

flatheadpeate; How it looks and how it rides is what most are after. When you do the job yourself you can call it Good enough at any point. When it goes to a shop and you Pay by the hour any new issue is the shops Fault no matter the cause. We have to make it Right for you to be happy.

So, Teacher gijo985; You now have many choices in front of you. Why not do what your there to do, Teach. Do all of them. Make it a learning experience, not an event they could just as easy do in there driveway. Every action has an equal reaction. There is no right or wrong just different. Some ways are better than others. We all have a different level of what we want or expect. When we are just messing around with our own stuff it don't matter. When we are getting paid by You for anything there is No middle ground, you want perfection. Your students need to Learn that so teach. You have valid questions regarding changes to the leaf spring itself. Try them all, it's just nuts and bolts then you'll know what/why. Isn't that how we learn? Isn't that why your students are in class? Making something Look Kool is way easy. That don't mean it's going to work.
The Wizzard

 

P&B; This took me about 3 hours and didn't cost me a dime.

 

It does change the geometry. It changes the angle of the drive shaft at the u-joint and takes away some of the preset up and down tolerance of the u-joint. It has been done fore years and has not caused a problem but yes it does change the geometry. It would be much easier to draw out what I mean in a picture but I***** at fancy programs on the computer. I still use paper and pencil !

 

Using lowering blocks can affect pinion angle. I used a maverick rear axle and lowering blocks on my 49 and tried driving the car with no further modifications........had a vibration and wore out my trick offset rear u-joint in 2 weeks. I cut the spring perches off the axle and bought a new pair from the local trailer supply house for 6 bucks. Tilted the rear axle down so the pinion angle matched the U-joint angle at the transmission and welded the new perches in place. As a side note: this operation also allowed me to correctly center the axle in the car, giving me the same tire to body clearance on both sides of the car..
I flipped the original spindle supports and heated them to bring them back to correct camber. All it took was a flat place to work, a acetylene torch and a big square. This had some unexpected ramifications that actually improved my handling. The steering arms now needed to be heated and bent down to clear which effectively shortened them, giving me faster steering....car had steering similar to my old 64 'vette. Not "twichy" but pretty quick. .I changed the little weenie sway bar out for a 1.25" unit from a 70s Trans-am...drove like a slot car!

 

Actually I was looking at your approach as well as the blocks. I have moved a lot of springs and used your basic approach a ton, granted my spring relocation usually has to do with making room for wider tires.

On store bought blocks the taper is usually all that is needed to keep things copacetic. But then again that is what wedges are for.


Any time to change the location of the rear end no matter what method you use it changes the geometry. What we are actually concerned with is pinion angle, the geometry is changed no matter what when you lower a vehicle if for no other reason you have lowered the center of gravity. The pinion angle is what will need to be adjusted and as long as the pinion angle is equal to the crank angle you are good.

 

I stated****uming if that was his set up, I have used flip kits on converting to the set up ,but in most cases that too radical of a drop for some

 

The shorter leaves make it stiffer, I have seen where they flipped the leaves as how much its trial and error depends how old the leaves are and the weight of the vehicle, have even seen Mono leaf only but had coil overs too.

 

"backyard mechanic budget" - is how I operate - 1 1/2 coils cut up front - $0 - in the rear 3" square tubing from a steel scrap yard - $3.00 - you can use '51 rear shackles and get another inch - $20.00 - remove a spring or 2 - $0 - all this is pretty cheap - new axle bolts - $20.00 - I did this on a '50 - and it rode/handled just fine!!

 

Show the kids this video as part of the project...

 

That is a GREAT old video! I'm going to use that to show my car obsessed 4yo how suspension works. Thanks for that one!!


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Thanks for the video Dan!