[ QUOTE ] Either I am not funny in the least or some of you guys really lack a sense of humor. Or maybe you like the conflict and chest puffing stuff? [/ QUOTE ] At the Hamb?? Naw............ I too watched that special, after seeing the problems they encountered with 2K technologies on hand.. It just amazes me that these guys were ablle to pull it off. These guys are the forefathers of hot rodding. Good ole OHIO stock
So here you go.. I real challenge! Go build a pietenpol plane, lots of people building these vintage flyers with the old Ford "B" the powerplant of choice. http://www.pressenter.com/~apietenp/ http://www.wingsofhistory.org/pietenpol_2.html
Yes, that TV image of the flyer ending up in a mud puddle was not the one we wanted to see. 286Merc is right about the effect of wind speed. A representative from the Smithsonian said on radio, the wind was gusting up to 30 mph during that historic flight. The diff between 10mph and 30mph on a sail or wing is pretty dramatic.
[ QUOTE ] Ok, if everyone could just take a second to step off their soap boxes and use a little COMMON SENSE they will see that this post was meant to be funny. A joke. Comical. To me, the achievements of these two fellas are so incredible that any suggestion otherwise should immediately be suspected as sarcasm. Either I am not funny in the least or some of you guys really lack a sense of humor. Or maybe you like the conflict and chest puffing stuff? [/ QUOTE ] But Ryan... you forgot the smiley!!
thought i'd add a few things, cause i read! i read an article yesterday in a machinist trade mag, about one of the motors built for "a" reproduction, don't know which one, the original was 200ci, 4" BxS, 4 cylinder, heavy cast iron pistons, the connecting rods were made from bicycle tubing, brazed to bronze rod ends, yes brazed! their biggest problem was, you guessed it, throwing rods! the crank was made from a solid steel billet, roughed into shape on a drill press, then finished from there on the lathe. now remember no milling machines in 1903, the block was machined by rigging the lathe to hold the block, the babbit main bearings line bored to size with a metal pipe of fitting size, and abrasive paste. it put out an incredible 12 hp at fire up, down to 10 at takeoff, and only 8 by the time they have to land. it ran at 1000 rpm, no throttle. if i remember right, the fuel mix was vaporized by contacting the outside of the cylinders, then sucked into the combustion chamber. the intake valves, were operated by the suction of the intake stroke of the piston, ignition was by breaker points, one located in each combustion chamber. and it was even water cooled. and FWIW the wrights did not build the motor, they assisted in its design, but it was made by another fellow i don't remember his name.
Hey , .. Let us NOT forget Leonardo DaVinc... WILD dude with a Mind beyond any of us ... That guy dreamed up some NICE shit when the rest of the wordl used their time trying to come up with New cruel ways to punish Non-belivers.
No matter how you look at the "history of flight", the Wright brothers had a "hand" in "making it happen." It's too bad that not enough head wind, and I'll hazzard a guess, wet fabric on the wings (added weight) were to blame for yesterdays poor showing. The "team" started in 1999 to duplicate the Wright machine as accurately as possible. They just couldn't control the weather. If the Wright brothers were alive today; I'd invite them to come and work in my shop in a heart beat!! BTW - Would you let John Travolta fly Your 747??
i think only one person didn't take it as a joke, the rest were just a bunch of hot rodders talking about making shit fly! very cool event, and like i said, a replica was built here as well. all over the news, sorta like it was football for a day or two. *ack* anyway, regardless who flew first or how well, the pioneers who figured out how to measure lift were the true pioneers of aviation. the hacksaw brothers, orville and wilbur. h.p. aside, they figured they needed 80lbs of thrust to fly. their propellor design gave them something like 130lbs. HOT RODDERS!!
Bruce, thats a neat article. especially since I just finished my Materials class. (in training to be an engineer) So I understand all of that! I guess school is good for something. Joe
Think of the era these guys were in. Guys were replacing their horses on the old Studebaker wagon or bike with home made steam and infernal combustion engines. An engineering degree wasn't as useful as an apprenticeship in a blacksmith shop or factory. New tech was way ahead of what schools were teaching. Even if you had a car, there weren't any gas stations. The only roads coast to coast were RAILROADS and wagon trails. I'll bet at least 1/2 the U.S. population still didn't have electric lights or indoor toilets. The part that kills me in all this is that the parachute actually predates the airplane. BTW the first recorded flight in Idaho Falls was a Curtis assembled in the local park in 1911. Aviation spread pretty quickly all things considered.
The Wrights may have been just "bicycle mechanics" but I think they were actually smarter guys than the others working in the field at the time. They were certainly more clever. Also unlike others they didn't assume anything. They looked to birds for inspiration of course but not primarily for structural design. They realized that all the "birdlike" contraptions were a dead end and that real research with repeatable results into creating lift and controlling direction was needed and they set about doing it. They may have been just a couple schlubs from Ohio but they were true scientists. They were also real "systems analysts". Every part of the machine had to take into account every other part of it in terms of weight, shape and function. That they were able to boil down all the tricky and contradictory engineering considerations into a working package is a testament to both their ingenuity and methodical work habits. It was a real balancing act--this much available power needs so much wing area which lifts this much weight at such and such an airspeed which is determined by how much power you have---and around and around until the whole design enterprise spiraled elegantly into what became the Flyer. I could go back a hundred years and with some modeling experience design a glider with spruce and muslin which would be wildly better than the primitive attempts of the day. What I couldn't do is improve much at all on what the Wrights did. Although they both fly the design contraints of powered aircraft are far more problematic than that of gliders. They flew gliders but it was always with an eye to eventually realizing powered flight. These were some focused dudes. That they were obsessive and maybe a little loony seems to have been not an obstacle to their success but rather a requirement.
Their continual attempts to find numbers and to discover what actually worked through home made wind tunnels and balances and constant observation really impress me. They really put effort into developing an understanding of lift, drag, thrust, and the dynamics of flight. They were the first to realize that turning was not a simple two dimensional maneuver, and it has been suggested that they were able to make this leap because of their background in Bikes--which also have to tilt to turn. They were the same sort of self-taught scientist as the hotrodders who spend their time flogging flowbenches to see what's REALLY happening to all that air.
<font color="brown"> Ya jus' havta love this place! If it wasn't for the likes of the above aero pioneers and many others for that fact where would we be? Man's conquest to fly, float and drive fast on land and water just makes us mere mortals toiling in the garage so humble! What drives us is PASSION, possibilities and the eternal unknown. Reading Ryans first post really made me think, after too, seeing it on TV. There are also many unsung heroes that do it 'cos they are driven and just wanna! Today I finished assembling my son's trampoline and as I gazed out across the cut and freshly turned paddocks ready for hay baling I noticed a thermal building, just like a mini tornado winding it's way across the paddock and into the neighbours property. Picking up the dried grass as it went, quite a sight and my son saw it with glee as I told him about thermals etc. Then it took me back to before I was a teenager, flying freeflight model aeroplanes with my Dad, waiting for that elusive thermal and "BIG" flight time. Having built scale replica models weighing no more than a 1/4 ounce "Peanut Scale" and making them fly was also a challenge in itself. My Dad still builds beautiful R/C planes, boats etc. and they are great to see in action. Let us all be proud and humble and never lose that passion! Amen. Cruisin. A piccy taken in 1972, a high thrustline "Carl Goldberg (USA) - Viking" FAI power model. We won the NZ FAI Power class at the Nationals with that! </font>
The Jalopy Journal
