Hello folks, Mick here. So I'm ***embling a pretty stout 350 chevy motor for my street driven hot rod. My question is concerning intake manifolds. I have a few on hand. One is an original aluminum chevy 2x4 type with the winters snow flake cast into the body. Another is a very early Edelbrock 4 barrel open plenum with the TM 1 designation cast in to the body. I am looking to use the TM item but am not sure if it is compatible for street use. I believe it is a very open single plane type. I have been led to believe these were more for upper end performance as opposed to a dual plane type. Any experience some one may have had with the TM would be appreciated. I also have an early M/T cross ram on hand. I need to make a hopefully correctly informed decision. The car is 4 speed manually equipped. Thanks for any information one may share.
The single plane will give better top end performance as you were told. The dual plane will give better throttle response down in the rpms where the car will usually be while being street driven. Both can be driven on the street but their strengths are at opposite ends of the RPM curve. How will you drive it and what do you want from it? There are intakes that will work better for low speed power, but the winter's will have a definite cool factor. There is a thread on if someone should use a Winter's intake or a newer dual plane where they bring up the question of what type distributor will you be running. A modern HEI might not clear the rear carb on the Winters. Here is a link: https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/performer-vs-winters-for-a-traditional-327.1218936/
I know nothing of dual carb intakes, but the first AM intake I used was a Torker 2 for my 454. Added a Holley 750 vacuum 2ndry carburetor, want much of a change over the Q-jet and low rise CI GM intake I had, until around 3/3.5 K rpms. My friends said the carb needed a tune. I took the truck into a place my buddy worked at, they tuned it. I didn’t notice a difference. I went to a HotRod shop and and asked advice. Fella said “I remember you, I told you there better choices available”. So saved up, bought a Performer 2.0? For it, was like night and day. All I got
U like working on hot rods? Yes--use the 2x4 setup, or the open plenum unit. Will definitely satisfy your desire and keep U busy, a lot. No, prefer to have an easy street driven rod----do what the guy above did, performer or equal dual plane and edlebrock carb.
The factory 2x4 probably takes WCFB carbs whis is a smaller bolt pattern than a typical Holley. You'll be fine with the TM1, I've ran them on stockish 350's without issues most people that quote the power band hoopla has never actually ran one and just p*** along some ****amamy story they heard someone else repeat. Here's one I have on a 307 But of course I would use the M/T crossram which I'm going to do because I love 2x4 setups
A single plane manifold will work real fine for a hot rod on the street. I've used several with excellent results. I'd use that TM 1 without a second thought.
More information is needed for informed advice. What are your cam specs? Static/Dynamic CR? Heads? Gearing? Without more info, I would lean towards an Edelbrock Performer RPM and a 750 cfm carb/w vacuum advance.
I agree. It depends on what your driving habits are and what the engine likes. I run an Edelbrock single plane (tarantula) on my 427 in my '50 g***er. My '66 Chevelle runs an Edelbrock performer 2.0 dual plane on the 396. Both engines run great on the street... But the g***er has a higher rpm range. The chevelle has more low end torque.
There are a lot of factors to picking the right intake. I have a 9.03:1 505 we are putting a victor single plane on with a BG 830. My cam starts around 3500 and will go to 7500. So the single plane will be good at the top. The heads were ported and move air quick and a decent amount of it. It won’t have the low RPM throttle response of a dual plane to play games in traffic but it will move the car just fine. Your 2x4 will more than likely be the intake of choice for a responsive car that will make more than enough power to get you in trouble if that is what you want. You might loose a little top end, but you can’t outrun a radio any ways. And a pair of Vintage Holley 660s could be jetted to make for a very happy engine.
Thanks guys for all the reply's. So here is the thing regarding this motor and my determination to use it as it was last ran. I am a long time hot rodder. I am no expert but understand the basics. literally 50 years ago when I was an impetuous young man I sold my beautiful, to me anyway custom chopped ridged framed Pan Head Harley. I took the moneys and bought a really nice 64 Chevelle oval track racer. After realizing how insanely expensive racing was even then I sold the car. I kept the entire drive train and stashed the motor, quick change rear and the muncie four speed away. Forward a lifetime and here I am at 74, two years a widower and still messing with cars. The motor is an original lt1 350 4 bolt main unit. Bought from the only go to Chevy dealer in the New Orleans area that specialized in crate motors at the time. A pair fuel injected type straight plug heads was also purchased with the short block ***embly. The heads were sent to Mondello for a full port and polish treatment. The stock rotating ***embly was balanced and a Lunati solid roller cam was swapped out for the original cam. Also an isky rev kit was installed as well. The compression is the stock 11 to 1 ratio. The torker manifold I mentioned was set up on the motor with an 850 Holly carb. Along with isky roller rockers and the big 2. 02 intake valves. A Mallory electronic ignition system included. Now regarding the cam. This is probably the one item I should have changed to a more reasonable grind. Against sound advice and better judgement the cam has been reinstalled in the motor. The Lunati features .600 lift and 300 duration for both intake and exhaust. It is going into my 40 ford which is a fairly light body. Along with a Muncie 4 speed. As far as rear gearing I will be using the Franklin quick change which will allow variations for gearing. Now guys I am fully aware of the ludicrous nature of this whole combination. ALL of these parts and pieces are as they were in 1970. The exception being bearings, gaskets, and new intake valves and the normal items used in a proper rebuild. Most of the speed stuff was bought from the now defunct Jakes Speed Equipment here in New Orleans. Now this motor is no virgin so to speak. It was run hard on several short tracks around the Gulf Coast areas. It has been repaired on a tail gate by flashlight a few times as one may imagine. I have the good fortune to be lifelong friends with one of the most knowledgeable Chevy restorer, hot rodder, mechanics ever. Jim has ordered all the parts needed and is well along in the ***embly process. If the motor proves too finicky for fun street driving I think a cam change will be in order. So thats about it for the motor and vehicle specs.
Those two manifolds appear to be exactly as the pair I have. I really like the cross ram and am leaning that way. I am not clear at all regarding what carbs to run. There are so many variations its confusing to me. double pumpers, center squirters, mechanical secondaries, vacuum secondaries? Holly? Edelbrock?
If you are still ***embling the engine, use a degree wheel and dial indicator on the lifter. Turn the engine crankshaft, starting with the indicator zeroed on the heel of the cam until the indicator reads .050 plus the valve lash. This is touchy because the ramps on a roller cam are fast (steep angles).
Ok guys thanks for the in put. The spec I gave came from the original cam card which I still have. The specs were at the 0.50 as you stated. My friend whom is ***embling the motor for me has set up his degree wheel for the cam setting. He has vast experience and has built many Chevy motors both small block and big blocks. I did attempt to call Lunati. I was in formed there would be 230 minute wait time to speak to a tech. Apparently Lunati has been enveloped into the Edelbrock family of companies. I chose not to hold. Later I was able to locate the original cam spec card from Lunati. My buddy and his brother are very well known car collector guys and have an amazing collection. However they are also very quiet un***uming guys preferring to be private. I would really like for them to show more people their collection and projects. Truly beautiful, and unique. Im really excited to have my friend ***emble this motor for me. He is as old school as me and this old motor.
Your cam has 300 degrees duration @ .050 and .600 lift, and it was intended to run on the street? LS engines have a lot of cam lift, but duration @ .050 300? I've not seen that in an engine that's in a street-driven vehicle. I don't see how it could be better in a 1st-gen. 350. It won't start making power until about 5000 rpm.
I like this part "Now guys I am fully aware of the ludicrous nature of this whole combination." I'm 100% for doing it ! People in this group sometimes get to caught up with facts, figures, formulas and forget the "FUN" side of things, to scared to cross over the line and live a little. I'm all for double pumpin mechanical secondaries especially in a single carb application, Edelbrock carbs have no business on that engine. Not that I have anything against the AFB design, in fact I run a pair on hot little 355, their operating design is just not right for what you have. On my M/T crossram I'll be running a pair of 450's with 50cc pumps and adjustable plates in the rear, it's also going on a 11-1 355 but I have a smaller cam and bigger cc head to cut the compression down a little. I'm trying to build more of a cruiser this time around but still using my performance stuff on hand. I would suggest running the TM1 with an 850 since it's a known good working combo on your engine in the past. Later on if you feel like changing things up then put the crossram on.
Thanks again guys. I dropped off my 850 Holly today to another old guy hereabouts who ran a one man carb shop for many years. Now some 80 years old he still has a small operation to do the occasional carb. I am getting flamed a lot these days for my choice to run this motor as it was originally. Its just for the fun of pure hotrodding. There are several restored 40s as well as ones with street rod accouterments in the area. There are no obnoxious rumbling 40 coupes to be found. All I want to do is mortify my buddies whom are now mostly gold chainers. When Ifirst bought this car it had a 1957 Olds 371 -j2 motor. Which was a dealer installed 3x2 set up. It looked and sounded stock. With 300 h.p. it ran pretty well. After one evening of exuberant frolicking on old Earhart expressway the motor suc***bed to the rigors of spirited driving. Those kids in their damn Mustangs kind of thing. So I will have the carburetor and the TM 1 ready to go initially. Thanks swade 41 for the encouragement. Its kind of funny how a marginal idea or plan can seem much better once a few folks get behind it. Another thing is very few people have heard the whine of quick change gears on the street. All these pieces were paid for 50 years ago on apprentice Iron worker wages. I will have very modest monies in the resurrection compared to starting new. If it all goes for naught I really won't mind. If it doesn't pan out I do have a back up motor. It is a 392 Chrysler hemi with an Edelbrock crossram sporting 6 Stromberg 97s and a solid Isky roller. Complete with a Wilcap adaptor kit (you know like Johnny Cash) to run a Muncie behind the Chrysler. By the way, my friend who is ***embling the Chevy drives a 1953 Studebaker C/gas car on the street. The Stude is sporting a 454 Chevy, 4 speed that came from the same parts counter as my motor 40 years ago. The Stude was raced at the old Laplace Dragway for several seasons back in the Sixties. It still has the paint and livery from that era. It is really cool rolling down the boulevard. Its all about fun with a little local provenance history as well.
Well 55 blacktie, you are correct sir. The cam was not intended for street use. It would idle fine although it was most happy at about 700 rpm idle speed. However it did not load up with fuel or foul plugs as has been suggested. So I am committed and things are moving forward. I do appreciate the suggestions and advice as well as the warnings!
You may have to run octane booster, but radical engines on the street it where it's at! Fairly light car, throw 4.11s in the QC and rev it up! That's hot rodding. Nothing wrong with putting around with a mild small block/auto. But why castrate that beast, I say. Fast cars are more fun. Period.
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