Marching to a Banger beat - The March 2014 Banger Meet

Thanks guys all of the above I would consider resonable and in no way am I offering any critisim. Ihave always found members here in the banger group more than helpfulin both advise and the obtaining of parts and for that I am very greatful. Until resently I was a member of F.A.S.T. a great organiseation which I would highly recomend to any person residing in America their publication is great and I miss it very much however when you cant attend meets it is very frustrating and the cost together with money exchange ect mounts up. Locally I am now being asked for advice as guys are modifiying even stock type restorations in order to get their cars to perform to modern traffic conditions. Far from considering myself an expert I can at least explain what has worked for me and what has been a catastrophic ( expensive ) failure how many times do we see some one here say I have brought a model A if I add twin carbs and a high compression head will it go better the the answer of course is yes but for how long without doing this that and -----!
Old Dawg, Crazydaddyo and RichFox amongst others your acheivements are considerable and your contributions here are highly valued it is what makes this sight a valuable tool and I wish more would contribute.
I found the coments on the other post else where on the H.A.M.B. over the price of the engine to be a bit over the top and although while it was on the high side it showed the misconception of many to building a performance banger motor as mentioned combined with the costs of our failures and motors put to one side awaiting rebuild the cost is not inconsiderable but surely this is where we get our interest keeping the preformance banger going thanks guys well done.

 

Russtee;
You can have your cake and eat it too, start a F.A.S.T. chapter down under, you already have several members in your (large) backyard. Email Ron Mosher for instructions, we have a very active chapter up here in No. California headed up by Steve Straw (email him also). We all belong to FAST but leadership up here produces a monthly newsletter (internet) has monthly meetings and hill climbs, Steve may even email you our last issue.

The direction of the Ford Barn has changed a little recently and is allowing Model A's with some with engine modifications to ask questions and receive answers. As driving conditions have changed, higher highway speeds, seat belts, overdrives, more durable internal engine modifications and etc. has prompted many to modify their vintage cars for safety.

I am a Trustee of The Model Ford Foundation (Model A Ford Museum) and Trustees, we are charged with operating, maintaining, conducting business as needed to provide and protect the Museum that you and many others contributed to so it could be built and visited. I think it is fortunate that with 15 of us we have such a varied interest base. One of my interests is portraying that many ways the Model A has impacted the USA and the whole world. One of those areas is the performance modifications that offered the truckers and the racers with a way to succeed in their efforts.

FAST came to the rescue, I contacted my old friend Jim Brierley with my idea and asked if we could collect some cast off equipment that I could build a display engine for the Museum. Jim said that he had a old Winfield head with a 1/2# of brass on it, so we were off the a start. Two days later Jim called back, he thought that a FAST engine on display was a very good idea and said he would put the whole thing together himself. OK we will have an engine but we still have to get it to Michigan.

I called Steve Straw to report that we (FAST) is going to have an engine on display, Steve said that he would lead an effort to build up an overhead. So it is late 2012 and Steve and I are both headed to the big No.-Cal Car Parts Swap Meet at Turlock in Jan., Steve is nervous no head yet, still none by the we each arrive. The Head Gods smiled on us and between the two of us we had promises of at least three heads by the shows end. Steve and Jim are now talking about their progress to each other and Jim says that he will pickup the Nor-Cal engine at the April Auburn Hill Climb and will take it and his to the Museum in May. A whole new meaning for FAST = Friends And Speed Together.

Hope to see Jim next week on my way to a new location in Tennessee. I thought that the museum should have a Pietenpol display and when I suggested it a couple weeks ago I was told that we may receive what we need to build a Model A Powered Aircraft display. Those of you out there if you have ideas for future displays please contact one of the trustees.

Alright RussTee, I didn't answer to everything in your post, but will in my next reply, a very low budget overhead engine build done with many castoff parts that I think many can do them selves. No I am not doing this , a friend is and I am only helping a little. I have photos but don't know how to post them, I can email them to someone who can.

Steve Ribeau

SUPPORT YOUR MODEL A MUSEUM maffi.org
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RussTee,

Last year, a gentleman from your part of the world brought a G28 motor to Bonneville and ran it is a coupe. While not technically eligible for any record, he was able to make some passes and add another notch to life experience.

On to your comment about investment and ease of SBC.
Yes, purely from financial point of view the SBC is the way to go. Oh, you can spend $60k there too if you try. I am of the opinion that vintage motor racing is worst than a heroin addiction. Supply and demand for obsolete parts pretty much explains it. Short runs of custom billet parts to keep them together also contributes to the cost.

Doing some or all of the work yourself will offset some build cost. Or, invest into the tooling and make what you want. If someone actually thinks I have $30k invested in my motor, I'd like to talk with them about "Bridge property investment"

I understand there is quite a following in NZ, a few visited here a year or so ago and shot pics all over the shop.

In racing, there is no guarantee that you can buy a trophy or record.

John

 

"Old Dawg, Crazydaddyo and RichFox amongst others your acheivements are considerable and your contributions here are highly valued it is what makes this sight a valuable tool and I wish more would contribute." RussTee

I've seen your contributions, and I feel you contribute as well of any of us. Sure, I've got some nice playthings, but many times I have to depend on work of others, as I don't have a very complete shop.

There's a guy from your country, Derek Thomason, who does some pretty nifty work. I have one of his quickchange's. You can't get one in this country of that quality, at that price!

Small blocks? I've got some of those too. There's a whole lot of parts for them. But when they start throwing those parts around, they get expensive.

Here's one of mine:

 

callcoy
Thank you for your reply it has many valid points and yes their are quite a few disconectted banger fans in he greater NZ area and I like the idea of a branch of F.A.S.T. down here however Derek Thomason the guy with the g28 motor at Bonneville the maker of Kiwi quickchanges and seller of antique Ford parts has started another club The Rebel As and I dont think it would help the fan base. ( He will be back at Bonneville and is building another very inovative motor with which he hopes to live the dream no small feat when you are this far away however he is much better informed now and is known to many of you through his visits and humour) New Zealand is an interesting place in that a great variety of Ford speedsters and equipment reached here early on including model a powered planes and snowtracked model a fords heading to Antartica much survived although shunned by restorers for many years and some very interesting vehicals exist .

 

johnneilson
The visit of the American banger fans is strongly remebered here both the personalites and the cars and they would be welcomed back after seeing any pictures taken by the group I am sure you would agree that the trip was surely one of lifes experiences as much as racing your belly tank at Bonneville thankyou for your reply

 

Old Dawg
Any racer who can take on a Bugattie with a Ford banger wins my respectyou not only have some nice playthings but surely know how to play with them look forward to your posts

 

The engines Jim and I built are on display in the museum! Go see them!

 

A little bird has told me that Derek Thomason is alive and well in the USA at the moment and was seen in action at the F.A.S.T. lie and brag weekend a place I am sure he would be right at home as he has been known to tell a good story so feed him some beers and let the good times roll wish I was there with him. Good chance to catch up with him and get to hear first hand what the scene is like down here.

 

OK I'm back.

As to $$$$$$$ ? I'm still counting

 

I have enjoyed reading the posts about the money invested in engines. I have misplaced my invoices from Taylor Engine's from the 90's but I think I spent around $4,000 with Taylor's which included crankwork plus shop labor and everything else they supplied. bronze cam bearings, etc. etc.

I'm on the 4 th rebuild of this block. #2 never left the shop. crank was found to be cracked.

Then there money spent on things just sitting on the shelf such as a set of REM rods with new J and E 4" pistons with new narrow rings, original dual Winfield side draft manifold I made with a pair of Winfield B S carbs, a couple of cams, all the different ignitions and on and on. These items were purchased to use on or in this engine so I guess the cost of each could be added into the total.

Just bought a set of Chrysler lifters that I'm modifying, gonna put the block on the mill today and bore and ream the lifter bores. Gotta make a fixture to cut them to length and then regrind wrench flats. They are the single locker type. Tried to buy some from Dan Mceachern he lists them in his catalog as ground to A B size for $10.00 each but no more. Terril's in Tx has some that are .008 oversize for $10.00 but how big do you want to ream? With out modifying it would be hard to grind as od of foot is not concentric with body of lifter, at least not on the lifters from Egge. Could be ground with toolpost grinder after rough turn with carbide but not worth the effort to me.

Just put new bearings in my delta toolmaker grinder now have to reset the bronze spindle bearing. Replaced the cross slide screw and nut on the lathe. I mean it just goes on and on, gettin' tired of fixin' sh-- stuff !

Spring is here, it was 37 this AM !

 

Sitting down with a very good book to night. A very good customer that I made a header for his speedster sent me one in the mail today.
I don't think I will get much sleep tonight.


WACCUSTOMS.COM
Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!

 

I thought I would chime in on the engine cost.

I picked up a unrun rebuild from a friend for $2200 with counter balanced crank and lightened flywheel. Disassembled it and checked it all out...Then bought 2 updraft winfield carbs, 1 intake, a winfield super head, for $500. Bought a Super nice Downdraft winfield and another intake, for $700. Reground Cam $125. Around another $400 in small bits and such. Gaskets, machining the head, paint.. Then sold a carb for $500, and the other for $250. Than bought a mallory distributor and had it restored. + $250. so $3500.

Seems pretty decent?

Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!

 

I hope this hasn't been covered ad infinitum in other places before but since I'm just a part time lurker, I hope you all can help.

I bought this B engine this past weekend, drove 14 hours to pick it up. Like any of these it's a crap shoot. Looked pretty clean on the outside. BB motor with diamond. Supposed to be the good stuff.

So when we got home and rested a bit we opened it up to have a look. #3 rod bearing pretty much beat out of it, but the crank not scored. OK, that's fixable. But then I got scraping up top and find the crack from #2 intake valve seat over to the cylinder.

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Cylinders are 3 15/16th so at least .100 over. And this engine has seen a lot of hard use. Much cylinder wear, pistons very loose, and a big ridge at the top.

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So my questions; In 1969 we would have given this block a proper burial and kept looking. Are we still doing that? Or are these problems fixable. Can the crack be repaired? Sleeve back to standard? New hardened valve seats?

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Since I'm in central Nevada, Los Angeles is the big city to us. Are the guys at H&H in La Crescenta the place to go?

This one did have the cast counterbalanced crank, we always called a 'C' crank in 1969. Thanks for your thoughts and help. I have a Lion head, lightened flywheel with V8 clutch, and a twin carb set-up waiting.

 

Isn't that an exhaust valve seat?

Yes, fixable by stitch pinning, and new hard seats. I would NOT recommend letting anyone try to weld it.

In a way, you are in good shape bore wise--because that cylinder appears to be already sleeved--are the others the same? The sleeves can be pressed out, and new ones installed.

Definitely salvageable with some work and $$


Herb

 

It depends on how far into the exhaust port the crack goes.

If it can be stitch pin , then yes.

.

 

Jim Galli

"Since I'm in central Nevada, Los Angeles is the big city to us. Are the guys at H&H in La Crescenta the place to go?

This one did have the cast counterbalanced crank, we always called a 'C' crank in 1969. Thanks for your thoughts and help. I have a Lion head, lightened flywheel with V8 clutch, and a twin carb set-up waiting..."

I'd be inclined to send you to Taylor Engine, in Santa Fe Springs. Or, maybe Dan Eubanks in Baldwin Park (but, I don't know if Dan is doing such work). I don't know if Gene Oley (sic.) is still in business.

My 2 cents!

 

Jim
I,am sure your doing this anyway
Crack test the entire block they crack in some funny places if they have had a hard life I have a block with crack in the water jacket fixable but also in the bearing web questionable

 

On those B blocks is Between the cylinders and the valve seat most common place to look for cracks? Is there any other common place for cracks to appear? I have a B motor and am about ready to open it up and see if I can use it in my coupe. Unfortunately it does not have the counterbalanced crank. I hope it is in good enough shape to put in and run around until I can afford to build a touring motor. Thanks in advance.

 

Thanks for the helpful thoughts on my questions.

 

New banger block getting close:

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=616056

 

Opened my banger the other day









just going to put it back together like it was before and add a magneto but i got this:

 

I was wondering if anyone here has modified a 235 chevy oil pump to use in Model A block. I'm guessing the main shaft needs to replace with a longer one (is the shaft turned down in the center for oil to pass through, like the model B pump), the top of the pump housing turned down to fit the A block, the inlet capped off and the bottom drill & tap for inlet from the bottom, Is the outlet also capped off? Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Brian

 

Brian,

I haven't heard of using the Chevy pump, might be worth looking into.
I have seen a few of the V8 pumps modified to fit. It takes the long pump with the pressure relief near the center of the shaft, not the one on the gear housing.
I can dig one up and show pics later.

J

 

here is the April 2014 banger meet:

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=873235


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