Having a second look... my opinion hasn't changed. But it does look a lot better from the rear... as in going away. It needs to be hidden again so perhaps Woody Allen and Diane Keaton will discover it in the future - in that same cave with the VW. Gary
I realize that this thread is old, and that my reply may fall on a lot of deaf ears (or blind eyes in this case), but I feel the need to reply, nonetheless. Joe Wilhelm was my grandfather, so I personally know how passionate he was about his work. Some of his friends and colleagues called him "Slow Joe" because he took his time with his work, working tirelessly in an attempt to perfect everything he did. I'm surprised, even in this day and age, at how many people are so quick to say some pretty nasty things about the Mark Mist. Saying things like "this car should have been called Missed the Mark" doesn't make you witty or funny. It makes you cruel. Also, using expletives (aka four-letter-words) to express your disapproval doesn't make you sound very credible/professional. Joe Wilhelm loved what he did. He was a professional. He put his heart into everything he did. One thing he didn't do, though, was go around bashing the work that others do. I take all of your insults about my grandfather's work personally...and I'm glad that my grandmother hasn't come across this thread, because it would tear her apart to see some of these comments. We are all entitled to our own opinions, but have some respect. For those of you that can appreciate Joe Wilhelm's work, there are plans to create a Facebook page for him. My brother and I are in the process of putting something together. If any of you have any pictures, stories, links, etc., that you'd be willing to share with me, then I'd be grateful. Thanks...
Thanks for your words. There's a herd mentality around here that astounds me sometimes. In the context of it's day, the car was part of a show car scene that was filled with radical customs like your grandfather's. The problem with retrospection is that it often reinterprets "then" in light of how we look at things "now." And here on the HAMB, there are a lot of people who tell us "the way it was," even though many of them were not even yet born.
neffje, just remember that it doesn't take a high degree of intelligence to surf the internet. Anyone who's in the public eye, past or present, is going to get some of this from time to time. YOU know the truth, as do quite a few people here, so don't sweat it.
I use to draw thar car all the time when I was a kid. I always dug the reversed Buick wire wheels, first of the blackwall tire cars in its second version. Some of the things people consider ugly now was cutting edge then, like the one piece windshield. Back then when you built a custom you kept modernizing it instead of following tradition so much. That thing would be bitchin painted black.
He and Vern Lacy worked on the 54 Buick that Rod P put a Candy red and silver reverse 2tone scallop job on in the early 80s. I think Wilhelm handled the front.
neffje - Welcome to the H.A.M.B.!!! I would suggest that instead of focusing on all of the "negativity" in this thread, that you take the time to read through the many other HAMB posts that have had nothing but praise for (and/or pictures of) your grandfather's work: * Clif Inman's 1957 Chrysler (Joe Wilhelm built) (Blog) * Clif Inman's 1957 Chrysler (Joe Wilhelm built) (thread) * Hayward Car Show......1961 * Barris built '54 Jag XK120 * JOE WILHELM CUSTOMS * History of the Custom display ~ GNRS ~ OFFICIAL thread info & photo's * Vintage customs theorizing * Photo album ---Kustoms * Why are you working on you latest project ? * Show Car Old Post Cards * Rod & Custom 1963 Oakland Roadster Show Interview ? * chopped black 57 chrysler custom? * Rod Powell (Blog) * Rod Powell (thread) * Gary Howard (Blog) * The 1964 GNRS * Davis ~ Ingram Jewel "T" AA / Altered ... Lotsa Pics!!! * Fukamuni (member Intro) * Trendero Kustom reborn in Minnesota * art challenge 8: regional custom styles (artwork) * '57 Chrysler HEMI COUPE FINALLY!!! * What would Sam Barris do to the idiot ? * new car, '57 Chrysler * Kustoms * Rod and Custom GREATS who've passed. * Friday the 13th Art OOOooOOooOoOOoo (artwork) * Top Custom * Anybody have any info on this car? * 51 Bonneville Roadster Rediscovered.The Paul Harris 32. * The Paul Kelly Photo Collection * Which Mopar has the Biggest/Baddast Fins? * Virtual top 100 Custom car show * late 50\'s MOPARs, Can they be cool? * your opinion-who's the Greastest Kustom Car contributor?
Don't be surprised at how many people are willing to rip on the car. Hell, the first post ripping it was the owner/originator of the forum! Of course, if you were to ask all those hating on this car to submit a pic of the coolest car they've ever owned - and then put that pic up against your grandfather's car - the results would be funny, to say the least. Wilhelm's stuff was always a little more experimental and a little more out on the edge than a lot of customizers, so it's bound to get a bigger reaction. I think the fact that, in period, this car was the king of the custom magazines and the king of the ISCA tour says pretty much what needs to be said. Every '36 coupe doesn't have to be a Westergard...and yeah, I like it.
This is the first site of this kind (or any other) that I have ever been on and I must say there is great wisdom and great otherwise here....alot of guys post stuff on here that they would never tell you to your face. I think that is the test...if you wouldnt say it to someones face, dont post it. It's a different story if someone asks for your opinion, then give it...but why not be nice about it? Joking around is GREAT...but some posts arent made to be funny.... As for the Mark Mist...I love it...really whats the difference between it and El Matador? Very similar....its a period thing. Very few customs in the old days had "flow"...Some guys get/like period customs, some dont...its all good. With all this talk of periods and "flow"...sounds like a womans meeting if you ask me...lol....The Mark Mist looks like El Matador mated with a Jaguar XK coupe...very distinctive. If you look through MOST magazines that showed customs most were...ahem...not an improvement...but it was their attempt at personalizing a car the way they wanted it. Isnt that why we're all here?
Look very closely. It's a narrowed '59 Lincoln grille. The headlight bezels and the grille were one assembly (or at least one continuous styling statement). Where the grille would have come across the car in one flow, he truncated and split it, and butted the sections together. You can see a seam on each side if you look closely. Which does nothing to take away from the craftsmanship. After reading all the comments on this thread, I think the haters can be expressed with a simple math equation: (Rod Powell) > (haters x 5)
love it or hate it, it is a peice of custom history. how many people really loved ALL of what Barris did..but anyway...I think it's a cool ride and it's even cooler that it is still around.
Well...People are still screwing up [customising] shoebox fords [gees, I didn't think there were that may coupes left!!] on a regular basis, as well as early 50's chevies, Ponts and Olds and are praised for it....Most I don't like when the chop [or whatever] goes too far, like using the nose of a 57' caddy....Me personally never liked the radical stuff and I was around when it was made, but it was made for a "class" of cars that competed or were being emulated..Nothing wrong with that, how many cars are still being built to emulate one's past possesion or mag pic? What, about a 100k or so 5,6,7 chevies? Oh and they are all different right? I'll end by saying if you are going to be cruel with your comments, post a pic of your ride [IF you got one] so return fire can be given or be quiet and cover your anguish with another tatoo......
Hey, PLEEEEEEEEEASE tell me this hasn't been ''restored'' and placed on some fucking Corvette chassis with a Caddie Northstar engine, & some of those vulgar directional" Foose type" aluminum wheels, oh, and let's not leave out the overcleared urethane top coat in some variant that didn't exist in 1965? " Do not reach greedily for the Kool-Aid ''
i cant believe how ugly this thread turned out! i still stand behind what i said 3 years ago, and will add that just the work in the hood alone was more than the complete chop on my merc.. and im sorry to joes grandson, and family that they had to read all this nasty bullshit.. and i hope new pics of the resto get posted, but im sure they wont now.. great..
I liked the early version before the license plate surround was added and "squished" the grill opening. That made all the difference in the world. (click back and see lurker mick's pic.) I liked it enough when I was a teenager to attempt to build a model of it, but couldn't find the Lincoln headlights to do it. It's still in a box around here someplace. Does anyone make the '60(?) lincoln in a 1/25th model today? (No I wouldn't pay "antique kit" prices to get one.)
Skill of the builder is irrelevant as is the quality of the build etc etc etc. Ugly is ugly and that is a true abortion of car design if I've ever seen one. There are reasons some people never designed cars for a living. Can you imagine what would have happened if a designer for GM or Ford came up with that ? Custom my ass. (And just as ugly ).
Neat piece of show car history if it is your cup of tea or not. Even cooler to see a grandson taking pride and time to acknowledge the hard work of his grandpa. I'd like to get a copy of the book when its finished.
. Love it or hate it, a lot of heart went into it. It's not my cup of tea but then again, I don't respect datsun 240z's or the guy who designed it. Personally, I would rather have the 36 Ford (in it's original condition) that the car was made from. -To me the epitome of all cars is an original bone stock 36 Ford (or Lincoln), not a 32 or an A or a custom. Irregardless, 'the scene' in the 50's was that of the custom and good or bad, they all got press and even the ugly ducklings had crowds around them at shows. (they still do, just walk by any chevelle) It is still a Custom built in the heyday. They are what they are, the men who built them did so while pushing the envelope of their generation. That doesn't make it anymore or any less a part of someones life or any less of a car built by a craftsman. .
It seams that a lot of people on here seam to forget that each era of Custom Car building - or Hot rod building - has its own language of style. This car was built in the early 1960's and this was the language they spoke back the. This car is a perfect sample of what it took to get your Custom Car to get noticed at the shows, and in the magazines. You can hate it or love it, but you do need to see it in perspective with the time when it was built. And if you can - seams like there are quite a few people on here who fail doing just that - you will be able to understand this Custom, and appreciate it for what it is. A very well designed - in its time - and grafted Custom Car that had is fair share of Custom Car Show awards and magazine features, including some covers. A Custom Car is not always a 1950's built Barris car as some might think. There is great diversity in customizing, and some might like one better than the other, and that is perfectly all right. I like it. And if you can see it in the time it was built you have to see that Joe Wilhelm built one fantastic custom!
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