I did a search and see several recent helpful posts regarding brake systems, but I didn't find anything about single vs dual reservoir masters. So the new '60 Buick in my driveway needs a new master cylinder. Originally my question was "how can we add power brakes?" But after reading the posts about power vs manual I think my question now is: If we need replace the stock single reservoir master...is it wise to change to a dual reservoir OR with new wheel cylinders and good shoes/drums, is the stock single reservoir master safe/good enough? I have had answers on both sides...a ol timer mechanic today told me the single reservoir master is "DEADLY"...while several people have said the original set-up is fine, it worked fine back then so it'll work fine now. Just replace or rebuild the single, make sure everything else is good and keep in mind you have an emergency brake for emergencies... Based on the info she has I guess my girlfriend has her mind made up on keeping the brakes original and having this place rebuild the single reservoir. http://www.resleeve.com/ This place was recommended by a friend. As well as replacing other brake parts through Kanter. She wants to be able to drive her car to work in Pomona from time to time on the 10 freeway in traffic, and I'm just not convinced yet... I'd just like to get some more opinions. TIA. This has good info: http://www.hotrodheaven.com/tech/brakes/
duel mc, as stated in the other posts, if anything fails witha single mc, you have no brakes. with a dual you'll still have some...I wouldn't let my old lady drive with a single, then again I don't let her drive me anyways...scary shit.
Since most cars with single-reservoir MC's don't have real emergency brakes, just shitty "parking brakes", they're NOT a good thing to have. If you do have one you'd better inspect the entire brake system very often. I've had brake lines go out 3 seperate times due to the hard lines blowing out (rust). Twice was in my truck with a dual MC, so I just had crappy brakes and got brake fluid everywhere til I fixed the line. The other time was in my '55, and that was frigging scary. Luckily it was in an empty parking lot so I coasted around in circles and then rubbed a curb until it stopped. If I'd been in traffic it would have been MUCH worse.
Yep, I brought home an old Mustang a couple of years ago, turns out that I probably damaged a brake line as I was chaining it down on the trailer. A day or two later, one of my buddies was at the wheel, that line blew out, and no brakes! Fortunatly, we weren't going fast, and he was able to pull into a vacant lot and go around in circles till we stopped. That car is getting a dual MC, and 4 wheel discs!
I have a single MC in my coupe, out of a Mustang. I have it, because I haven't got room for a dual, or the clutch arm would hit it. I replace mine every couple of years, weather it needs it, or not. Wheel cylinders, too... I rebuild 'em. As it has been said, you lose ANY part of your system and you got NOTHIN'. If you have room, go with a dual, and I'd go with an adjustable proportioning valve for a heavy car. JOE
Keep those votes and stories coming guys...paalease! Outside of the HAMB we've got 4 solid votes to keep the single reservoir, and those 4 votes are from 4 people who's opinion we trust (one of which is from the place that would be rebuilding the master though) She just told me "it is easier to keep it single" and "Buick would not have sold the car had it not been safe." Arrgh. My Fairlane has a single and I've driven it for 8 years like that and NO-body's ever said "yikes get rid of that single master!"
I'm new to the hamb and acutally on one of my first posts this question came up. I have a 57 chevy wagon with a single mc... When I was towing the car home after buying it, I actually had a brake line blow on my truck.. Imagine going down the interstate, full size durango, 16 foot trailer with a 4000 lb wagon on the back... 60 miles per hour and hit the brakes,,, nothing!!!! SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! luckily the trailer had brakes, and it was a rear line that blew. There is nothing scarier than going to hit the brakes and ending up with your foot on the floor. My Durango obviously has a dual mc, but it was still the worst experience I have ever had.... We made it home safe and now the first chance I get I am swapping out the Master cylinder on my wagon.... The single will probably work fine,, could be for a week, could be for a few years, but I feel the longer it lasts the less likley you would be to check the lines.... It will only take one time to go for the brakes, and end up in the back end of a school bus....... Keeping the car original means nothing if you end up having to tow it to a junk yard or your funeral.... just my opinion, but I hope it helps sway you twords the dual master cylinder......... steve
[ QUOTE ] go for the brakes, and end up in the back end of a school bus....... [/ QUOTE ] Boy. That'd stop you in a hurry. I, actually, lost a front wheel cyl. in my coupe, when I was about 17. The pedal went to the floor, and to the right a busy "T" intersection... a hard left was a bank parking lot... I downshifted and chose left. I went up the driveway, thinking it would scrub some speed... Wrong! At the back of the lot was a chain-link fence... the kind with the aluminum strips criss-crossed through, for privacy. I HAD to hit it. This was with my '32, now... with the chopped top. I chose a spot, between two of the 3" galvanized fence posts, and hit it head on, like a safety net. WHAM!!! Fucking concrete light pole base... ( I didn't see the 40 foot light pole, because of the chopped top). This all took place in about 50 feet... The frame horns on the front of the car? I made 'em. Oh, and I had a stainless spreader bar, that took the impact like a trooper. 22 years later, I'm still running a single master with original (rebuilt) early Ford brake cylinders... and no spreader bar. Hmmmmmm...... Well, I guess I just love a good mystery. JOE
I have a single res MC in one car, ONLY because it is restored stock. Scares me when I think about it. Current project has a dual MC. A previous driver project truck, PB dual MC, blew a rear hardline going downhill with a redlight at the bottom. When it blew the pedal went real soft, truck was not stopping like normal but was slowing down. Pulled over to see what went wrong and found the rear line rusted through where it passed through a crossmember. If I had a single res MC I would have stopped in the backseat of the car in front of me.
I think I might have some retro-engineering to do. I do have my own welding shop... Thanks for gettin' me thinkin' about this. Alot of the reason I havent changed it is because my dad and I built it. Back before there was anything but a hacksaw, a bench vise and a Bulldog buzz-box. But to not change one thing (the tranny crossmember that the MC is mounted to) and wreck the WHOLE car is pretty fuckin' stupid... ain't it? Alright... I'm gonna do it. I have power tools, now! JOE
[ QUOTE ] duel mc, as stated in the other posts, if anything fails witha single mc, you have no brakes. with a dual you'll still have some...I wouldn't let my old lady drive with a single, then again I don't let her drive me anyways...scary shit. [/ QUOTE ] Yes. I still got the single in the Galaxie and I just don't let the Ol' Lady drive it period. Not because its my ride but because she's my lady. The new old Cry 300 has a single (factory) but it will have to be converted before it hits the road. I still haven't figured it out but I will (or someone will tell me what swaps). No question no option. You should take the same attitude. Master Cylinders are cheap.
This just in from the lady: "I think you're right, we're going with the dual reservoir master cylinder. Find out what will work so I can start tracking down the parts I need." I suppose this is a no brainer issue for many, but I'm assuming there are thousands of old cars running around with singles still in them. Hopefully some of those guys read this post. I'm putting a dual in my '59 Ford before it goes back on the road now too. Thanks for the input guys.
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] duel mc, as stated in the other posts, if anything fails witha single mc, you have no brakes. with a dual you'll still have some...I wouldn't let my old lady drive with a single, then again I don't let her drive me anyways...scary shit. [/ QUOTE ] Yes. I still got the single in the Galaxie and I just don't let the Ol' Lady drive it period. Not because its my ride but because she's my lady. The new old Cry 300 has a single (factory) but it will have to be converted before it hits the road. I still haven't figured it out but I will (or someone will tell me what swaps). No question no option. You should take the same attitude. Master Cylinders are cheap. [/ QUOTE ] P&B'r - The late 60's early 70's Mopar duals have the 4 bolt pattern and bolts up to the early cars. Here's a page you might like. http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.com/techstuff.html Mutt
You haven't lived until you're bookin' down the freeway, rush hour, in the middle of Portland, Ore. Brake lights in front of you and you hit yours'. NOTHING, the pedal goes to the floor. Seems the hose to the rear end had been rubbing on something and finally worn through. Yank on the E-brake, hit the horn and make for the shoulder, at least you're on an uphill grade and you eventually coast to a stop. Been there and done that in a buddy's Mustang. Blew a wheel cylinder on the front of my F-1 panel, no brakes. Blew a wheel cylinder on my '59 Willys, no brakes. Blew the master cylinder on my '40, no brakes. Drive any vehicle with a single MC long enough, and eventually you'll loose the brakes. Moral of the story? If it's to be used much or is to be a daily driver, go with the dual MC or be prepared to change cylinders and hoses on a regular basis. And be damn sure the hard lines are in good shape, or change 'em.
[ QUOTE ] I'm new to the hamb and acutally on one of my first posts this question came up. I have a 57 chevy wagon with a single mc... When I was towing the car home after buying it, I actually had a brake line blow on my truck.. Imagine going down the interstate, full size durango, 16 foot trailer with a 4000 lb wagon on the back... 60 miles per hour and hit the brakes,,, nothing!!!! SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! luckily the trailer had brakes, and it was a rear line that blew. There is nothing scarier than going to hit the brakes and ending up with your foot on the floor. My Durango obviously has a dual mc, but it was still the worst experience I have ever had.... We made it home safe and now the first chance I get I am swapping out the Master cylinder on my wagon.... [/ QUOTE ] Did anyone read this?!?!?!!! You won't have enough brake left ***even with a dual chamber master cylinder*** to stop a full size car safely. The smartest thing to do is to make sure your brake system is in good working order and the emergency/parking brake works correctly. I am speaking from experience. I have had brake failures with both types of master cylinders and the feeling was the same... FUCK THE BRAKES AREN'T WORKING!!!!
[ QUOTE ] Did anyone read this?!?!?!!! You won't have enough brake left ***even with a dual chamber master cylinder*** to stop a full size car safely. The smartest thing to do is to make sure your brake system is in good working order and the emergency/parking brake works correctly. I am speaking from experience. I have had brake failures with both types of master cylinders and the feeling was the same... FUCK THE BRAKES AREN'T WORKING!!!! [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, but at least with a dual they're working a LITTLE You're right anyway, this stuff needs to be inspected FREQUENTLY, at least if you live in a bad climate. Stainless steel brake lines and new flex lines every year or two are a must as far as I'm concerned.
It's not as cool as scrounging your own parts, but companies like Master Power Brakes have already done all the work in finding what master cylinders will swap over, etc. I don't know the number, but they have a tech line. Ever bought a water pump, starter, alternator or widget from the local parts house, pull it out of the box, install it and then it dies in a week or two? No reason a wheel cylinder wouldn't be the same. I'm not throwin' rocks, I'm just sayin replacing wheel cylinder frequently on a single res system isn't enough. I installed a dual with remote reservoir under the floor in the stock location on my '54 Buick. It was a good option for a tight spot. Glad she chose to go with the dual system! -Miles
This is good timeing. I am just getting ready to do the brakes on my "60" Olds. I was just going to replace the wheel cylinders and pads but now I think I am going to change the MC to a dual also.
The Jalopy Journal
