I have a CNC brake and clutch pedal setup that uses the 3 master cylinder setup. Two for brakes and one for clutch. I'm running into space limitations on the model A pickup. I was thinking of hanging the pedals from the firewall, swing style, M/C overhead not on the floor. The master cylinders would be on the outside firewall. Problem is 3 Wilwood m/c's hung late model style would look goofy. What other ways have you guys mounted these things? Under floor space is very limited and if I floor mount with the m/c's inside the cab my foot will not fit between the pedal and the front edge of the seat (Death Rod).If I mount on floor with m/c on the outside of the cowl the brake m/cs will hit the back of the head on the motor. Or should I say hell with it and run 'em proudly on the cowl. They'd be easy to bleed, fill and also higher than the other components...just not attractive.
the only ones i ever messed with were on a latemodel dirttracker. they were made so they were a single unit that you mounted inside the car. the reseviors were pointed inwards. you just mounted it up and plumbed it. everything was inside and out of harmes way. (rocks, dirt clods....) personally i'm a beleiver in my car functioning safely and correctly so i would mount them out on the firewall. mabey you could make a cover? i know this wouldn't be very attractive but atleast it would take some attention away from the late model parts.
I dunno ... I think three of the good looking Wilwood M/C's would look good on the firewall. It would certainly give the onlookers something to think about. Most folks don't realize why two M/C's on the brakes. Stuff like that is a good conversation starter and in fact anything done a bit differently is good in my book. Done differently for the right reasons, but still, different. Who the heck wants to see the same ol car and the same ol stuff all the time?
Safe is a big concern of mine. I also can't afford new stuff now that I've joined the unemployed ranks. I thought 3 M/C's would definetly be different and what the hell...it has other non-period perfect parts on it. I figure as long as it gives the feeling that it was around for 40 years it doesn't have to be 100% correct. Thanks C9..looks like I'm mounting high and proud! I was really on the fence on this one. Quickrod said they looked OK and I felt from a maintenance and safety standpoint they were right. Real cars have 3 pedals? Mine's got 3 M/C's
Cool. And not to high jack the post, but what the heck.... [ QUOTE ] Real cars have 3 pedals? Mine's got 3 M/C's [/ QUOTE ] I used to run an Olds powered 50 Ford coupe with two M/C's. and a solid clutch rod. One M/C controlled all four brakes. One M/C under the floor, one M/C under the throttle pedal on top of the floor.
I've often wondered what the FEEL of a hydraulic go pedal was like? What kinda viscosity do you run in something like that? I'd probably use 120 wt gear lube...60 ft times suck and I'd run her out the back door everytime
I can't really comment on the Wildwood MC's -- I don't know much about them. I'm sure they are shiny. We just pulled a couple of brake brackets from some late model (late 70s?) Dodge vans for Jeff's truck. These brackets have a hanging pedal and then translate the movement of the pedal 90 degrees to the right (parallel to the dash). These will be tucked up under the cowl out of sight. they were expensive, though -- $3 each at the u-pull-it yard.
I grabbed a few sets of hanging reverse pedals from late '50 to early '60s Brittish sporty cars. The master cylinders point back torwards the driver under the dash. The coolest one from a very early Midget is difficult to adapt modern MCs to. The later/bigger ones are a little easier. Best part - they don't look like aftermarket stuff. They still look OEM.
There is a guy around my neck of the woods with a 50's Chevy pickup that is running a Big Block Chrysler with 60's style ram induction manifold.His approach to the brake master cylinder problem was to mount the master cylinder and booster crossways in the front of the pickup bed and mount a slave cylinder to the brake pedal to activate the assembly.Works great and is out of sight.If you like I can find out what he is running for a booster,master,and slave.
dude im tellin ya the ones you got would look fine out there,besides by the time you try to stuff you the shifter and all that other shit in that little ass cab{me} it'll look like ten pounds of shit in a five pound bag.i know its not your style,but save yourself some aggravation,ill give you enough when we do my lump.
I ran into the same problem with space in my A pick-up. Back in high school I ran a set of Ansen swing pedals with the master cylinder on the firewall and it worked great -- so i went lookin' for a set. Found two pairs for ten bucks each in no time, so they're out there. They take a dual M/C cylinder out of an International pick-up that's available down at your autoparts store. It's like a Chevy, but for some oddball reason Chevy trucks reversed the linkage so the clutch and brake M/Cs are flipped -- but the International isn't. I can get you part numbers if you're interested. I'm running a Nailhead, an Offy adaptor, and a toploader -- which didn't leave me any room for mechanical clutch linkage. I solved the problem by running a slave cylinder to the throwout arm that PULLS instead of pushes. Speedway and Wilwood have 'em. I haven't plumbed it yet to see how well it works, but it sure all fit in nice.
I'm glad there are some that are seeng the light. Thanks C9, I think that when you stand behind an idea it means something to most people on this board. I've been preaching the use of firewall mounted (or behind the firewall) master cylinders for some time. The factories (they don't always have their head up their ass) have bveen mountin the master cylinders on the firewall for DECADES. When you put them under the floor you can't service them easily, you loose room needed for exhaust, it puts the cylinder right next to the exhaust (know what happens to brake fluid when it gets hot?), its subjected to all the dirt and road grime that you drive over. I got hammered pretty good by some when I argued this point some time ago. It seem that I was bucking TRADITION by suggesting the firewall mount. Check some of your 50's rod magazines and notice how many rod builders were following the Detroit trend with firewall mounted cylinders. Some argued that it was difficult to reinforce the firewall to eliminate flex. To that I say you're just not using your head, a firewall can be made rigid enough to mount a master cylinder, just stick your head under the dash of a couple hundred cars the next time your at the pick-n-pull, you'll be amazed at the ideas you will see. Frank
Curly: i run the Wilwood triple reversed setup under the cowl on my 26 T modified. it works great and their out of sight. it's a bitch to fill them, but with a modified turkey baster, i got it figured out. it takes some work to build the hanging setup, as it has to be installed in pieces to get it all in there. took me about 40 or more hours to just build it, once i figured out how to get it all in there. i then used the stainless u-fab flex lines and fittings to connect everything. for the clutch, you need the biggest MC they have, i.e 1" i think, to make the clutch work. well on my flathead anyway. will be glad to help you , if you go that route.
Master cylinders belong on the firewall. Looks be dammed. That is where they work the best and are easy to maintain and check. All these Mustang ll cylinders under the floor, even the factory put them on the firewall. Lots of guys with master cylinder problems because they are lower than the wheels. Proportioning valves front and rear, who needs it. Mine have always been firewall mount with no brake problems.
Raybestos Master Cyl P/N MC36155 Wilwood pull-type Slave Cyl P/N 260-1333 The swing pedals were built by Ansen years ago, I'm not sure who builds them now. You can find 'em used if you look around. I have a catalog page from a supplier "TD Performance Products" that has 'em new. Note that the length of the brake and clutch lever arms very -- you want to get 'em long enough that your pedals aren't up under your dash here's a pic:
[ QUOTE ] I've often wondered what the FEEL of a hydraulic go pedal was like? What kinda viscosity do you run in something like that? I'd probably use 120 wt gear lube...60 ft times suck and I'd run her out the back door everytime [/ QUOTE ] Iused to have a hydraulic slave cylinder on my old altered. Hilborn used to make em. It was actually quite smooth but I think NHRA outlawed em for some reason.
Fab, thanks for the nice comment. In my book, well engineered first and nifty stuff later - if at all. Like you say, more than a few went the suspended pedals route - both in the good ol daze and recently. I remember one kid in Senior year auto shop. 48 Ford two door sedan, he stuck in a set of swinging 57 Ford pedals just because. The rest of the car - cept for dropped in front, big & littles and pipes - was stock. Took him a while and somewhere in there he realized he'd taken on a bigger job than he thought. Even so, it worked well. As far as the M/C's under the floor go, the check - or residual pressure - valves work ok. Access to the M/C for fluid level checks isn't too bad. My 32 has a stainless sheet metal floor cover, roll the carpet back, one screw loose, one removed and checking is easy. Albeit not as easy as checking a firewall mounted M/C. Granted, heat can be a problem, but stainless or aluminum sheet heat shields are ez to make. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Curly: the feel on the hydraulic throttle was smooth and solid. About like a good Heim and solid rod setup. Farther you pressed, the more resistance there was due to the return spring. The resistance change not too much, but just as noticeable with the hydraulic as it was with mechanical. I don't remember if brake fluid was used or a light oil. The throttle I used was a Moon hydraulic throttle with the small rectangular pedal. Bad part about it was, it set back a touch further than I liked. Twas ok though, this was on the drag racing iteration of the 50 Ford coupe. Next coupe - and there were several - I used the throttle pedal out of a 59 Ford. It worked great if you took care in where you drilled the hole sawn hole for the engine compartment side of the throttle arm. Couple more holes for the bracket mount, re-use the 59's felt seal and you were in business. Some 3/16 or 1/4" Heims - depending on what you wanted - some threaded - not all thread - steel rod an you were in business. The 64 & up Mustangs had a very usable throttle pedal as well. Along with the 59 Ford throttle pedal, more than a few times I had the junkyard guy torch out a big chunk of the floor board and up into the firewall. That made for a perfect trans hump and inset firewall for a typical street-oriented engine swap. Welded or bolted in with underseal glopped on, some insulation and carpet and you were in business. Most didn't even spot the taller rounded - vs. the flat topped stock - trans hump. Worked well for one of the coupes that was built as a sleeper. Olds powered, single visible tailpipe, 6.70-15 WW tires, little hubcaps, stock height, ChryCo super stock style rear springs for traction, tach back under the dash and out of sight. The car still had the stock column shift, but the shifter was a Hurst controlling an Interceptor three speed and the stick was so short and so close to the seat it was easily hidden by the drivers leg. Just the thing for those late night forays into the back roads of the orange groves...
Another thing to think about is the lower you sit, and your legs are resting straighter as in choped and channeled, hanging petals are always more comfortable.Look at all the old English sports cars. Or if you compare a Peterbuilt with the clutch petal going through the floor to a Mack with the firewall type mount, they feel totally differnt to drive all day. The Pete would try to puul the hamstrings right out of my leg.
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