Had an issue which I've not seen covered before and I really hope some one can help. In a middle of doing a metal flake paintjob, using 008 medium sized flake and Autobahn ( Wet Wet Plus ) clearcoat. Full flake coverage on entire car ( lots of flake ). We were only able to apply three wet coats of clear over the flake with the material we were sent. This is not going to be enough to bury the flakes at all... The finish at the moment is rough like 60 grit. but now we have to wait at least a week before we get more clear and can reclear. My question is, can we reclear in a week or so without wetsanding or scuffing the old clear? Will a good clean with dish soap and wax and grease remover be enough for the reclear to stick to the old clear? I know the normal thing to do is to go over the job with a Gray Scotch Brite pad, but I'm pretty sure this will instantly cut through the clear and scratch the color off the flakes. Any ideas?
As have painted car projects for over 4 decades I would at this point. Be careful in using soap to clean the new paint. I would recommend to use a liquid soap and lots of water. Make sure to allow to dry before painting. I would first spray a wet coat of real slow reducer with clear to allow the reducer to attempt to activate with the surface of the old clear. Then proceed as planned. I would stay away from any sanding to the old surface. You will cut the edges down on the metal flake and ruin the paint job also there is a possibility of leaving sanding dust in the co**** metallic and seeing it in the top coat. Good luck Vic
I helped a professional painter once paint his corvette and he used an adhesion promoter which really smelled like a common household all purpose glue. I don't know if that stuff is clear though. And don't sand the flake. It will become all silvery dull. I ruined a motorcycle tank that way......
Thanks guys, Vic, Would something like Dawn soap be OK? and is cleaning the surface with wax and grease remover ( I use Windex ) be OK? I am really worried that the new clear will lift. I am guessing I will have to put on at least four more heavy coats to cover the flake. Also, I've never tried the adhesion promoter on an entire car.
I think the adhesion promoter would be clear enough and provide adhesion. I would not clean with any liquid but instead carefully use compressed air and dab with tack cloth to dust the surface. Don't let any thing touch or contaminate the surface that dusting will not remove. Post pics when finished. Luck.
Here's a close up, Its very rough, sharp 60 grit feel in places Dupont 222S looks like something that might work? Its an adhesion promoter but I think you still need to scuff before you apply it
The adhesion promoter does not have a color, but it will be opaque. What's the tech sheet say about re-coating Windows? That's what you need to watch and listen too. You very well could cause the clear to lift. Painting is a planned process. If it feels like 60 grit I bet it takes more than 4 coats to cover it. Then you'll probably sand it and shoot a flow coat over it.
There was no Tech Sheet, just the basic instruction on the side of the cans. no info on the re-coating window. I've got a call ( several calls ) into the agent that markets and sells the stuff.
Have you tried sanding, maybe in an area that won't show or be easy to touch up? If you got 3 good coats over the flake I'd have a hard time believing you would ever hit the flake with a scuff pad, let alone some 800 or even 600 grit paper. Think about it, the reason it's so rough is that clear on top of each flake. Not saying you could level the clear but at least scuff it enough for adhesion. I have done enough flake jobs to know what a pia it is to get it flat again. Use to do it in the lacquer days, lot's of coats, wouldn't last anytime if it sat in the sun.
We shot it last night, I left it in the booth ( garage ) overnight and now its sitting out in the sun ( 90 degree heat ) . i tried a couple of places this morning, a light sand with 800 takes the color off the flakes. My guess is that a fine white Scotch Brite pad ( 1200 - 1500 ) is my only scuffing option, even that might be too much. I am hoping the Dupont 222s will open up the old clear and maybe stick to it. I'm guessing its the same general thing as Vic's idea above of using reducer.
I would think that any adhesion promoter would cloud up the clear. As I recall this product is best suited for colors. With using a slow reducer I would apply 1ea wet coat and let stand untill tacky then apply another coat the same way . This will allow the reducers to react with the clear underneath . Then apply additional coats as recommended by the manufacturer. Good luck . keep us posted on the outcome. Vic
I don't know if reducers will bite into a catalyzed and cured product,,, they aren't supposed to do that. At this point it might be moot but it's all you got. Reducers will bite in if it isn't fully cured or into a non catalized products. That's why we catalize some base coats, right? Some tech sheets on different products have full cure times from 3 hrs to 30 days & recoat windows without sanding of 72 hrs or after 7 days after sanding. They are all over the place really. That's to bad Mr. WETWET's private lable clear doesn't include that tech sheet. It gets really important.
I will call them on Monday and ask for the Tech Sheet for sure. From all I've read the Dupont 222s is a clear product that can be used on all OEM finishes. It seems to work over un-scuffed graphics and artwork before clearing
Another option i thought of was to lightly scuff the flake with 2000 grit or a white scotch brite pad, there will be some flakes that get cut and silver out, but i can add some candy concentrate in the first coat of top coat clear to try to add some color back to them, also use 222s as insurance
Heavy metalflake isn't shot on like other paints. I haven't done it personally, but saw it done 'back in the day'. There's a few extra steps involved according to the guy I saw do it. One, each coat of the flake is shot on fairly 'dry'. Use as little clear as possible. The heavier/larger the flake, the more important this is. Two, after each coat of flake the paint is wiped down vigorously. This is to 'knock down' any flake that's 'standing up' as well as removing any 'loose' flake. This promotes a flatter surface. The more coats of flake you shoot, the more critical this is. The fewer coats you do, the better. After getting the flake coverage you want, then you apply clear. If you've 'knocked it down' properly, a minimum of three coats will seal it. If you want a smooth finish, you're just getting started. The guy doing the job I saw said you started with at least six coats before sanding, and sanded that lightly. Three or four coats, sand lightly again. Repeat, sanding a bit more each time. Twenty coats wasn't unheard of for a smooth finish. Keep in mind that the paint of choice in those days was lacquer, so there was no worries about 'cure windows'. And not many metalflake paint jobs were taken out to a smooth finish. Most were only 'sealed', and the pebbly finish was considered acceptable. If you ever saw Barris's 'Twister T' in person, it had this pebbly finish. In artificial light, most metalflake jobs could look rather dull; you needed direct sunlight for them to really 'pop'.
That candy concentrate seems like a great option, one that I was going to try myself on the T-Bucket. I like the flake but not married to it. Sanded/cut down flakes that would be seen at certain angles but buried under a deep candy on top would look much better than a standard flake. Deeper, more consistent color, more elegant in the end. Less like a gaudy B*** Boat.
Id think you would be okay. If it is a urethane clear a week isn't that long and probably even though you can touch it and stuff still wouldn't be fully cured at the microscopic level. If it were me, and I have shot flake before. I'd make sure your surface was real clean (a given I know), dust a little adhesion promoter (most paint manufacturers make a variant) I use this stuff from clean strip called bulldog and hose your clear on and bury those flakes. I think that may be your only option and even though the candy idea sounds good, it may open up problems you never even anticipated. That's just my thoughts. Good luck! Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
Put a chain over your rear end and let it touch the ground to ground out the car ...the flake is standing because of static and I got so many coast of clear on mine over the flake to get it to cover well Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
Well, wanted to thank everyone on here for the advice. managed to sand and scuff down the clear with very minimal damage to the flakes, I've added eight more coats of clear now, ( 4 coats then sand followed by another 4 coats ). hope to wetsand and flowcoat this week.
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