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Technical Metal Strength Question

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by BJR, Jun 10, 2023.

  1. BJR
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 11,234

    BJR
    Member

    I see door latches for non automotive applications made of multiple layers of steel. My question is, are multiple layers of steel stronger than one layer if the final thickness is the same? Another words, are four 1/8" layers of steel the same strength as one 1/2" piece of steel. Or is it like plywood which is stronger than a solid board of the same thickness?
     
    Lloyd's paint & glass likes this.
  2. Lloyd's paint & glass
    Joined: Nov 16, 2019
    Posts: 10,838

    Lloyd's paint & glass
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I'm not an engineer, but I'd say it is. Makes me think of Damascus steel knives, follows right along with what you said about plywood
     
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  3. bobss396
    Joined: Aug 27, 2008
    Posts: 18,716

    bobss396
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    1/8" material is far easier to form than 1/2".
     
  4. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 59,791

    squirrel
    Member

    You'd have to be a lot more explicit in your definition of "strength" to be able to answer the question. But it's likely that it's made that way because it's cheaper to produce the part by stamping the layers, vs machining a thick piece.
     
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  5. Petejoe
    Joined: Nov 27, 2002
    Posts: 12,600

    Petejoe
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    from Zoar, Ohio

    gimpyshotrods, bobss396 and alanp561 like this.
  6. 1ton
    Joined: Dec 3, 2010
    Posts: 722

    1ton
    Member

    Plywood gets strength from having the grain run in different directions for every ply or layer.
    Unhardened steel does not have this benefit. The layers would act like a leaf spring if allowed to move independantly.
    Steel get's strength through thickness and surface tension.
    Show me a bridge thats built with laminated steel I beams and I would not want to drive my hot rod across it.
     
  7. The question that came to my mind is, what are you trying to hand build that isn't already available in one form or another? In the form of a Door Latch and Automobiles, safety should be considered ahead of Cost. There are places where just because you think you can doesn't mean you should. Maybe this is just a "why'd they do that" kind of question?
     
  8. KenC
    Joined: Sep 14, 2006
    Posts: 1,137

    KenC
    Member

    Just a guess, but probably in one axis, the one parallel to the layers. The other would be much weaker. Take a look at the cheap come-a-longs sold by tool places or boat trailer tongue winches, the gears are stamped and layered, but there are no bending forces, just shear.
     
  9. 1971BB427
    Joined: Mar 6, 2010
    Posts: 9,796

    1971BB427
    Member
    from Oregon

    Laminated steel without some connection between layers will not be as strong as one thick equal layer. The reason laminates are stronger is they're bonded together, so unless those 1/8" pieces are bonded together across their surface area, they likely wont be as strong as a single 1" thick piece is.
    Now if they were glued with modern adhesives, or forged like Damascus steel, they'd be as strong, or much stronger.
     
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  10. BJR
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 11,234

    BJR
    Member

    I have no project in mind. I just saw a sliding door latch, and started wondering.
     
    Pist-n-Broke likes this.
  11. That’s why shotgun ammo always stated not to be fired in a gun with Damascus steel barrels .
    They are not as strong as solid steel .
    They will literally fly apart !

    Tommy
     
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  12. willys36
    Joined: May 6, 2006
    Posts: 3,132

    willys36
    Member

    Strength of steel is in the chemical composition for a given shape. Engineers figure the stresses then choose a steel alloy that give the proper tensile and bending strength, along with consideration for fatigue strength, combined with the best shape for the job (bar, tube, rod, I-beam, channel, etc.). layering steel won't help and introduces other problems such as inter-plate corrosion. For 'high strength' applications in hot rodding look for plow steel. Some steel suppliers actually carry it or can get it on special order. Plow steel is a medium carbon steel with improved properties over low carbon cold rolled commonly available at the steel store. It was invented in the 1800s and is widely used in making wire rope.
     
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  13. Hutkikz
    Joined: Oct 15, 2011
    Posts: 206

    Hutkikz
    Member

    I don't know, but I've used a lot of come along's and the one's that have laminated gears do not hold up as well as those with solid gears.
     
    clem likes this.
  14. Kerrynzl
    Joined: Jun 20, 2010
    Posts: 3,593

    Kerrynzl
    Member

    It is stronger
    With engineering "Shape is more important than Size"
     
  15. '29 Gizmo
    Joined: Nov 6, 2022
    Posts: 1,169

    '29 Gizmo
    Member
    from UK

    Lots of different reasons depending on the application.

    # cheaper to produce thick sections from laminated stamped thin sheet than trying to stamp very thick metal

    # maybe case hardened laminations for strength/security

    # maybe dissimilar metal alloys to achieve the right properties.

    My guess is option 1
     
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  16. patterg2003
    Joined: Sep 21, 2014
    Posts: 885

    patterg2003

    A damascus shotgun barrel was spiral steel ribbon forged welded over a mandrel. The barrels opened up along the forge weld seams. We had a turn of the century dbl barrelled Remington that had the damascus like finger print pattern. A gunsmith inspected the barrels in the '60s and to report that the barrel was a modern barrel safe to use. Gun manufacturers used damscus like patterns in their bluing in the early years to emulate the beauty of the damascus barrels. I would think the layers of steel would have strength for purpose but not able to transmit stresses throught the layers. A solid bar top side would resist the compression forces and bottom side resist tension as bending forces are applied. For example take an 1 1/2" of print paper and bend it then that would be relatively east. Now picture an 1-1/2" of solid similar to sonotube cardboard. The solid would be impossible to bend by hand. At least that is how this simple mind thinks that would the difference between a solid versus a stack of not tightly bonded laminations would behave.
     

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