Hot Rods Metal working question: compound 90° bend curves

And FYI, since budget is an issue with many of us, the Beverly shear type shears can be found cheaper at places like Eastwood under the name "throatless shears", and I'm 99% sure that the nicer Beverly blades fit in the Eastwood body, but the Eastwood blades will work well too if adjusted properly.

 

All Snips aren't created equal. Hunt down the Midwest brand

 

I gather that the offset ones keep the hand above the metal, allowing longer cuts, but even at my young age I don't think that's healthy for the wrist to cut down the middle of 4 foot prices of 18g. Just was looking into Beverley shears. VERY MUCH want one. $$$ but worth it.

I got Wiss shears left and right, but they aren't the offset. I think I'm going to return them and get a straight (yellow) offset as you can absolutely curve with yellow ones the red/green just are easier to curve.

This topic has been helpful for me. I love Fabrication and am good at it, but the basics need not be stumbled through when there is an easier way, so thanks. I also think I'm going to do the shrinker stretcher first. And then either a planishing hammer or an English wheel. Which is better for shaping? Both can smooth, both can shape. Which is more useful? Been looking into building bucks to replicate / mirror / create custom parts.

I almost just grabbed a 35 Chevy and the fenders where pretty gone. Couldn't be saved (really) but the shape was there. I want to get
my self to the point where copying them is no big deal


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http://m.harborfreight.com/throatless-shear-38413.html?utm_referrer=direct/not provided


I know HF isn't the best, but maybe this bad boy is worth the $100 it would cost after a coupon and take better blades when needed? If the Eastwood is $40 better and worth it, I can do that but $1000 for the upper end ones I can't do. To bad it can't do quarter plate.... I build a lot out of 3/16 and 1/4


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That HF one looks exactly the same as Eastwood. It wouldn't shock me if they were made by the same manufacturer. If you can get that one cheaper, I would say go for it and upgrade the blades later on when and if needed.



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The way I know how to tell a good tool from a bad tool or a great tool from an even better tool?
By working with them, for a long time then discovering the "LIGHT" and realizing the difference. Go here - https://www.amazon.com/Midwest-Tool-Cutlery-MW-P6510C-Aviation/product-reviews/B003IWBT2K and read the reviews. Work with shit tools, get used to them and then grab a good tool and your like HOLY COW what a difference. Or get used to some good stuff and then grab a different brand or your buddies junk and you want to throw it across the floor. That same goes for anything, hammer grinder, tape measure, clams, ratchet, everything. Junk do tools save some $ cost going in but you pay frustration and might not even realize the PITA charge you are paining.

The biggest problem with the copy cat Beverly shear is not the blades, it's the pivot mechanism and guide system for the moving parts and the drive gears. Blades can be sharpened easy enough. When cutting with a shear, snips or even sissors the blades can't be slopping around at the pivot. If they do your wasting energy dragging edges and really just smooshing metal thin enough to rip, not cutting it. Click the pic and it should get bigger .
This thing is older than me and you put together and has been worked hard and it still works way better than a brand new chinabrand copy. I don't now what a brand spanking new Beverly feel like but I can't imagine it getting much better. I got lucky, because I was kind to someone they gave me this Beverly. As far as I can tell from cruising alibaba.com is that there's one company in China making them for everyone who sells them, HF, EW, BI, just different paint jobs and different retail prices. If you care to order 100 of them they will paint it the color you want then you can sell them too.

 

I got a Woodward Fab 8″ Throat-less Hand Shear about two years ago and it's worked great. $125 on their website, but I think I paid around $100 at their show booth. I bought Woodwards manual bead roller & stand, but had some small issues with it and not as happy with it. Wish I had save for a better bead roller...

I got the Eastwood Shrinker/Stretcher, haven't used it much but what I have it has work great. I made a metal bar to clamp it to my bench, but they make a vise mount for them.

If you ever want a Pan & Brake or other metal equipment, I would suggest Grizzly Industrial in Missouri. My 48" Brake is built well and their prices are good. They have other electric hand tools (shearers), but I haven't used them.

 

Made with a simple break, shrinker and stretcher..34 ford coupe quarter window inners.

 

I know HF isn't the best, but maybe this bad boy is worth the $100 it would cost after a coupon and take better blades when needed? If the Eastwood is $40 better and worth it, I can do that but $1000 for the upper end ones I can't do. To bad it can't do quarter plate.... I build a lot out of 3/16 and 1/4


The heaviest Beverly - the B-3 - is rated for up to 3/16 and well worth an active search for a good used one. Unfortunately for anyone looking most that have them know what they have and price accordingly.

I tried out a knock off at a show once and just couldn't get by the "feel", glad now I waited until I lucked out in finding my used B-3 at a price I could afford at the time.

Ed

 

Searching for a Beverly. Want one badly. Just got Midwest OFFSET left and right pair. Was going to just get an offset straight but no such critter existed. That would seem to satisfy any need. Why is it that I need both left and right if my had is above the cut? Truly wondering. Spent $24 so I can't complain


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Did you watch the video I posted about using snips? It's all explained there.

 

I have been using the HF throatless shear for a few years now. It gets a lot of use and is holding up well. Although a beverley shear would be nice to have the, HF shear is sufficient for a hobby level shop. I have a woodward fab shrinker stretcher. So far we just clamp it in the vise to work the metal and change out the dies as needed. This is not ideal but since we are not a production shop we have the time to change out the dies. I have a woodward fab bead roller also. I mounted it on a stand and added an old boat wheel in place of the crank that came with it. It works OK. Sometimes you have to make multiple passes to get the depth of bend you want because it flexes so much. I should add some stiffeners to it.

I have a HF planishing hammer. It gets very little use but is nice for smoothing and building domes or bulges in sheet metal. The HF english wheel is a useful tool for the money invested. It usually used to smooth out a hammer shaped panel. Once again if this tool is reinforced I am sure it will perform better.

When it comes to tools you usually get what you pay for. I also entered this hobby with a background of working with heavy (thicker) metals and working with top quality tools. It was an adjustment to move the sheet metal projects and hobby level tools. It can be done though and it can be fun trying to figure out ways to beef up the hobby level tools or just adapt to them. Usually they just require more time an ingenuity to achieve good results.

 

K13 you know… I started to, got about halfway through it, I got sidetracked, and must've forgotten to finish it! I'm going to finish it now.

39 guy that's all very helpful! I did put an ad out both to my local club, and on our local craigslist for peoples used metalworking stuff… Problem is, most people that have stop using their metalworking equipment are exactly on craigslist shopping for mayor or looking to sell it… We shall see!


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Good post I sometimes think some of the pros on here forget that a lot of guys are working at home and do maybe one project every couple of years. For the most part a home builder can easily make do with lower quality tools and if treated properly they will have no problems with their longevity for the amount they are getting used. will they last for daily use, no but most guys building at home are using them far far less than that.

 

Looking at the distortion of the flanges in the pictures, likely this ^^^ is the method used. Shrink/stretch the flanges of a ZEE fold until you get the radius you're looking for, and then tip the remaining fold, stretching a bit as you go. A linear stretch die can do the outer flange with less distortion, but you'll still need a shrinker..

 

I have the Eastwood brand shrinker and stretcher and they work real good after you oil it up.

 

The video was very informative but basically told me that the snips aren't for going across the middle of a large peice... that they are rated for 1/4" cuts off edges. Don't know if this is different with the offset ones


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K13, Thanks for the snips video. Very educational and worth taking the time to view. As a hobbyist I basically trade my time for money I would otherwise have to spend on the more expensive tools or to hire someone to do the work. Since I like doing all I can at home,this allows me to spend more money on parts that I cannot make for my projects.

 

So in trying to save money, and not have more than necessary, I wonder if the offset Midwest left and right pair I just bought is the right way to go, or if perhaps I should just buy one Midwest straight cut? I can't wait to try a Midwest though, because I'm using a 20-year-old craftsman I bought when I was like nine


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Very very true!
You are into bodywork and materials and such right?
Lets say a guy aspires to do riddler or Amber cars, or maybe just do one, once to say he did it. What do you tell this guy? I hope that It's not going to be get used to working with inferior products and throw good money down on junk equipment. Good lord I hope not because that's a different direction. What if a guy says he just needs to fix a radio flyer wagon for his kids, and maybe a pedal car in a few years, shouldn't/wouldn't the advice be different?

So here a guy named drew1987 aspires to shape 1935 fenders, build bucks and custom shape panels. He's not going to get there tomorrow and neither is the guy who wants to paint riddler cars but shouldn't the advice be cut from the same cloth, the same caliber and quality?

If a guy really has the talent and drive to reach for that level he's going to get there a lot quicker by skipping over and bypassing learning that bad habit forming and frustration level of barely adequate stuff stage. Along the learning curve there's a wide strip of grey area that's muddled with undefinable areas of both not fully developed skill level and the capabilities of inadequate equipment. The traveler on the curve has no way of knowing for certain if his skills are topped out if it's wrong habits or if the tools and equipment simply can't do what they are supposed to.

It's all relative

 

Bandsaws: Talked about this before on the HAMB. Take wood band saw reduce rpm to 200rpm, use bi-metal band saw metal blades. I cut a lot of thick(1/2") and thin metal with my saw. Built this hi- low gearbox for mine 4:1 ratio., low to high.

 

Straight snips, regardless of color, are designed to cut the depth of the jaws ONLY. So in trying to cut anything beyond that, they are worthless. You did right by getting the offset snips, left and right, and you shouldn't need any others. Unless you want to spring for a powered version down the road.

The video linked above by Bill Gibson has good pointers in methods/techniques for use that will keep them performing flawlessly for many years to come. Yeah, I've been using snips for over 30 years, watched his video and said.... So that's what I've been doing wrong. We're never too old to learn if we can admit we don't know everything.

 

31vicky very good point and well written. I Am looking for professional grade stuff as, lord
Willing, I'll be using it for decades.

Ago that's a good idea. Was going to get a nice one for my wife's wood projects, perhaps I'll use it dual purpose for the times I need ornate cuts


Mp&c I think they can cut as long as you want as long as you don't cut off more than 1/4" off the edge of what your cutting. They're fine final finish tools at least that's what I gathered from the video. So now my collection will be my old
Craftsman straight and Midwest left and right offset. Can't wait to try them. They seem to make the straights seem inferior


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I did get an email from a guy an hour from me with a vintage tool store.... going to check it out next time work takes me down there. I'll also be checking the antique places near me that I've seen tools at.

Did obtain a free anvil. Just got to get it home


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Drew 1987 Hey where is the vintage tool store I am about an hour and half from you would love to go to this store. I have several fab tools the advice on the snips in the video is Great. You will find that you hardly use the yellow straight cut snips at all. I use the throutless shear a lot and the Milwaukee electric shear for cutting 16 gauge like butter. You can check out my build thread below for the fab work. Hobo Jim

 

Aviation snips ^^^^^ fit that description

The blades are offset, that's why they are called offset, Unlike aviation snips. The handles are angled to the blades to keep your hands out of the full sheet your about to cut thru.

Those are aviation snips

Not true.

These are offset snips. Study the blade configuration
They work hand under or hand over the sheet.
They will trim down to thousandths (0.02) or rip thru the middle of a sheet.


Did you watch the video I posted?
Go back, pause it at 0:06 seconds read it 3 times slowly and give me screen shot.

Should look something like that.


Both of these snips will get your knuckles off the sheet. Only one is offset.
The ones on the left are aviation snips and work well at trimming.
The ones on the right are offset snips


Both offset snips. Left and right.

Aviation snips.
Waste to the right, straight and waste to the left.

 

Ok makes sense. Well I tried Wiss aviation ships, pretty nice, and Midwest offset... enjoyed the red far more than the green of both pairs. Believe it or not, and even I have a hard time believing it, the LEAST amount of effort was from the yellow straight craftsman I've had for 20 years. I think a straight offset, if such a critter exists, would be perfect I don't really see a need for right and left at this point in time maybe I will later.

56 dodge it's in Mt Morris. Send me an email and I'll forward you the guys info


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Thank you. I sent you a PM if you are ever in the Horseheads area get ahold of me you are welcome to check out the fab equipment that I have and try it out before buying Hobo Jim

 

They make snips that have 3 blades. The waste curls up between the outer two blades, leaving the material flat on both sides, instead of having to bend to clear the shears.

They're good for cutting through the middle of large sheets.




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You are missing the point of the offsets, if you cut to the right of the line then you use the Red; if you cut to the left of the line you use Green. There is no such thing as 'Straight', you can cut straight with either Red or Green Offset snips they are not specifically designed to cut curves only like the Red or Green aviation snips.