AMEN to that. Some people will brag about how good they are, and how much money they make,but won't teach anyone ANYTHING. I say Fuck Them. Looking forward to your pics Bluto.
I'm working on a video with some information on how to do tuck shrinking in it...slow going because I'm moving at the same time. Attached is a picture showing what I think is the easiest way to learn tuck shrinking. Just hammer the top of the tuck with medium blows using a steel hammer. It takes time but shrinking will result. Unhammered tuck on the left, partially shrunk tuck on the right. More in this album: http://allshops.org/cgi-bin/community/communityalbums.cgi?action=openalbum&albumid=9980191607382 John www.ghiaspecialties.com
Howdy Mr Kelly. I have visited your website and i think its great.. Never thought i would find that much free info.. How should i do to get me a shrinker disc that you sell? Do you ship overseas? I dont think i dare to make me one myself. What rev do you recommend? If i must buy me a new grinder i mean.
I have one of John Kelly's shrinking discs, although I'm ashamed to admit how little use it's gotten. It's a really nice piece of work, with a smooth surface and a lip around the edge. There's another one on the market that's made with serrations, which (I believe) don't do much to generate any more heat, but would slice the hell out of your thigh, or anything else it came into contact with while it was spinning. Also, I wouldn't want to make one my self, either. Not when you consider how nice John's are, they're a relative bargain. I think the shrinking disc works best with a 15 amp motor at around 5,000 rpm.
hey guys making your own shrinking disc really isn`t that tough. there is a tutorial on that on metal meet. also as far as rpms go 6000 is what you are after. also on e-bay under english wheels are shrinking discs for about 40$ made by wray schelin , the guy who started mm and drew that tucking pic. that duece rails posted. heres a pic of my hammer form and a finished disc. gary
Hi lowlow, I ship overseas. Just contact me directly: ghiafab@msn.com You can shrink with a 7" sander/polisher with only 3000 rpms. It just takes longer than it would with a more heavy duty grinder. John www.ghiaspecialties.com
I know you thought I was just another Yuppie sports car guy Look close you can build your own machine Since I got the Kraftsformers I don't use this much Remember No flex!! The only way you get tight,big,parts is by being able to control pressures. If not you have extra fitting and cleanup Anybody tells you a flexible English wheel or Hammer is OK is just wrong
Hi Bluto, I like a flexible frame for my portable planishing hammer. It allows me to get a similarly adjustable on the fly control as you can by changing your swing rebound and pressure exerted with a hammer and dolly. The same goes for the english wheel. A wheel that has flex is preferable for me. A wheel with no flex at all will not do well with the gradual changes in thickness that shaped panels have...so it is just a question of the the degree of stiffness that is a personal preference. Not flex or no flex. A flexible frame is all about controlling pressure. It does not give forever. It gradually gets stiffer as you apply more pressure. A certain amount of flex can make up for the lack of a sophisticated pressure control, which is great for the frugal tool connoisseur. I must be "just wrong" though (insert smily emoticon). John www.ghiaspecialties.com
I thought the shrinking discs were intended for shrinking high spots down to the crown of the panel, not for altering the shape of the panel. Anyone ever use them to alter the shape of the panel? How would that even work? As for the tuck shrinking tool, the first time I saw that was on one of the Tinman's (Kent White) video's. He sells the tool. Somebody here on the HAMB ought to make up a listing of all the sources for specialty metalcrafting tools.
Hey, Blownolds wondered about changen the shape of a panel with the shrinking disc..... 'works like shrinking with a torch and a wet rag, as the surface area of the panel is reduced, the panel starts ta change shape. If you control this reduction properly the panel will change to the shape you're after, if ya don't, especially in low crown areas, you'll create a bunch of work for yourself. I bo-leave John Kelly has a video on changin the shape of a panel with the shrinking disc. Both of the on-the -web metalshaping sites are, benevolenty or malevolently peppered with with metalshaping tools, for sale.
Hi Blownolds, I was thinking the same way until I started using a shrinking disc. The shrinking disc is just a shrinking tool. It does not know that the area you are shrinking is not a previously stretched spot. I have shrunk in the middle of a panel to get the flow I wanted after flaring a fender. There is a little bit on this in my metalshaping video. You can reduce the crown in a roof or hood with a shrinking disc...takes a long time, but it can be done. John www.ghiaspecialties.com
John Sorry to tell you but you are ''Just Wrong'' Good,tight,large parts are about pressure,control,and reliable repetability That said it is possable to make parts with a rock and stump What's right is not always well suited to some folks style I know a guy that FLATTENED a 5'' square Yoder die!! Honest The Dumb Bastard is still making stuff with that die! If ''wrong'' works for you .... no problem BUT if I gave you a week on my Kraftsformer and cast English wheel You'd not only make better bigger parts but a lot faster with less clean-up fit file and picking It's like telling me a 30'' brake is big enough!
If I remember right, Ron Covell and Kent White both prefer a fabricated english wheel to a cast iron one. From what I remember, most cast iron english wheels are too springy for their tastes. Regardless, I'm capable of making up my own mind about tools, and have my own opinions. Do you think an english wheel with no give whatsoever would make a good tool? I don't. I'm guessing your cast wheel has plenty of flex. Have you tried a portable planishing hammer with flex in it? A versatile tool. I like springy tools. You apparently don't. Neither one of us is wrong. From what you are saying, it sounds as if I could only make bad, loose, small parts using the tools I have? John www.ghiaspecialties.com
you gotta watch Gene Winfield shrink metal. He heats it up with his torch beats on it in a horseshoe pattern creating a crease or bubble. then he tack welds around the crease reheats it and beats down flat again. you gotta see it to believe. The man is truly amazining.
No I'm saying good tools make a difference I'm talking about clean-up ... pick and file time Like I said a sump and a rock will do BUT only if you think your time isn't valuable....I HAVE worked with crap and found good tools made better parts quicker As to Corvell and White again perhaps your impressed.... I am not The best craftsmen don't have web sites or sell videos they just do their job.They are always busy.But never too busy to help a fellow craftsman AND aren't trying to sell you anything Sorry but the idea with an English wheel is to form without leaving a mark A Yoder is a hella nasty tool but if you've ever seen it used right it makes very little noise in the hands of an old timer that knows his stuff
Bluto, I don't think that John is advocating the use of crap tools. He also didn't say anything about leaving a mark with his English wheel. John's a good fabricator, and a good fellow. He offers a lot of help on Metalmeet, and via e-mail. As you say, he's never too busy to help a fellow craftsman. I've also met and talked with Ron Covell a good number of times. Along with being a superb craftsman, who actually won the AMBR award back when that meant a little more, he's a very patient man and a true gentleman. When you dismiss him as unimpressive, I assume that you're probably not much like him. The fact that someone sells stuff, or has a website, certainly does not prevent them from being one of the very best craftsmen. To say that it does is absurd. Gerald Wingrove, who is probably the finest craftsman of miniature cars alive, has a website (www.geraldwingrove.com) and has sold a number of instructional books. From what you say, that would strip him of the "best craftsman" label, which makes no sense. --Matt
Thanks for your post Matt. Bluto, I suggest you try tightening your english wheel down until the upper wheel and lower anvil make contact. Spin the upper wheel to draw a piece of 20 gage steel into it. If your 20 gage turns paper thin all of a sudden, then you have a tool with no flex. If on the other hand, your 20 gage is still pretty close to 20 gage, you have a "wrong" tool. Making parts that don't need pick and file work is done regularly by many people without a super stiff english wheel or planishing hammer. Just check out metalshapers.org and metalmeet.com for plenty of examples. Your obvious disdain for some great craftsmen says a lot. Do you begrudge metalshapers a living? Does making money with your craft mean that someone is somehow impure? There are very few folks making a living at metalshaping...and nobody is getting rich. It would be nice if you would share some of your work so we can all learn from it. John www.ghiaspecialties.com
hi bluto, i believe your comments about true craftsmen not being on the net is a truly ridiculous comment. have you spent any time researching the net??? i guess the guys that scratchbuild ferrari`s and duesenburgs would not impress you either. heres a couple of other sites of non-craftsmen: http://www.hietbrink.com./ http://www.crailville.com/index.htm also now days, the pick and file method has for the most part been replaced with non-metal thinning methods such as using a shrinking disc with a highlighter. why thin the metal?? as far as a cast e-wheel goes, there not real stiff. a properly built steel e-wheel has less flex . also there is such a thing as too stiff a e-wheel frame. i do agree with bluto that quality tools do make a difference. bluto says the idea of the e-wheel is too form a panel with no marks. i agree but have to ask: what kind of lower anvils are you using? if you are using full radius as opposed to anvils with contacts (full radius would be standard on a cast e-wheel) i doubt your panels are mark free. its possible but doubtful. i too would like to see pics. of your work that you would deem "impressive" gary p.s. a jag panel i just finished as weve asked you to show us your work its only fair you can criticize mine. no thinning of this panel has taken place.
Hello, Gary. That's some great work! I'd be curious to see what Bluto does with metal that is actually "impressive" too!
OK No problem........ First I'm a mechanic not a 'Tin Man' I don't have a scrap book. This is just part of my job! Second I NEVER work in steel only aluminum I only gas weld I made this....... It's just an average unfinished piece for me AND I'm NOT impressed with myself either but this shows I'm not talking thru my hat Like many of you I started with homemade tools Most of us can't afford good tools but that doesn't make wrong right I do use a cast wheel and a KF 460 and I still 'pick and file' I only work on my own stuff.When parts are finished they go on the car. I have no customers. As to a living? My last car sold for 2.5 million I've had five heart operations in the last 20 months I think it's fixed now and look forward to working on my projects again Two things I'm sure of .... With 30 years of doing this some of you might understand what I talking about And you have no F'n idea who I am...... And I like that! There is no 'Before' photo it was just a sheet of 3003
Super nice looking work Gary and Bluto! But, Bluto, you did not respond to a couple of points that I made. Perhaps you are mistaking machines with flex in them for machines with lots of slop? There is a difference. John www.ghiaspecialties.com
Hmm, you knock Covell & White, and brag about all your stuff by posting pictures & sky high prices of whacky esoteric stuff you know probably no one here can or will buy, talk about this Bonneville car by mentioning how fast it went, but won't post the cars' name, say you sold a car for 2.5 million dollars, and say " I like it that no one here knows who I am" ? I just wonder why a millionaire is here posting about all his feats , accomplishments & posessions on an old hot rod board where a lot of guys don't have 2 nickels to rub together trashing like paupers to get a ride together ? I've read a lot of your posts and just about every one subtly "eludes" to something or some story to evoke & elicit others to post "wow bluto you da man" type replies. "Let's see, I'm a multi-millionaire mentioning I sold a 2.5m car, but I like to get down and mix with the peasants on an internet board." Talkers and braggarts are never doers'......and usually phonies.
Wow, Bluto, that looks awesome. Like you say, you're not talking through your hat. That looks a lot like a BMW 328 grille shell. Is it? Is it really made from a single sheet of 3003? If so, you know how to form a lot better than you can weld! You say that "It's just an average unfinished piece for me AND I'm NOT impressed with myself." Why not? It's obviously an impressive piece of work. Why shouldn't we be impressed? Why wouldn't you be? You also say we "have no F'n idea who I am...... And I like that!" but make a point of saying that your last car sold for $2.5 million, as if you do want to impress us. I don't quite get you, my friend. You're obviously a man of good taste, and a fine collector, and, as you've now shown, a great fabricator. But you also seem overly opinionated, impatient, and even a downright belligerent toward John Kelly in some of your responses. The HAMB, after all, is for spreading the gospel (and the how-to) of traditional hot rods and customs. It's no place to be secretive, or to argue about absolute rights and wrongs. Instead, it's a place to share ideas, and help each other become the best builder he (or she) can be. You seem to be using the HAMB more for selling stuff, and less for sharing your wealth of knowledge. What gives?
hi bluto, i am impressed. duece this grille was made in a few pieces and welded together. congrats on the 2.5 million , i hope you take 40 dollars of it and buy a shrinking disc as i believe you will grow to love it. as far as your secret identity, i think most of us could care less about exposing you . thank you for posting your pics. gary
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