Mickey Thompson ET Streets question

Im sure you already know this but i'll say it anyway.The faster you go the harder it is to go faster.My car was an 11.80 -11.90 car when i got it and it ran 12.00's in the heat .I have only got it down to 11.40 's - 11.50 's with a shitload of tuning (same weight as it was when i got it now with the rollbars ,steel wheels, and sub connectors added ,just distributed differently now).Im not trying to discourage you because id like to see you get there myself.The thing that concerns me is your mph.Most cars running tens are running 120 + and with your mph at 115 (which would proly be more like 117 in good air),is a little down .Mph is hp 99 % of the time.Gears and weight can make a difference as well ,but your mph sounds about right for the ET and weight of your T IMO.If your gunna get it to the 10's your gunna have to find sum more hp or get more weight out of it.Your T is exactly 200 pounds liter than my Dart BTW .I have never heard you shift ,but it sounds to me like your shifting that TKO pretty decent to get into the 11's.I am on a quest for the 10's myself (all motor,cuz i have no respect for the Spray thing) ,but i have reached the limit of my convertor stall,traction ,and cam ,so im gunna have to upgrade and spend more $$$ to get it there.Once again this is just positive critisizm ,not bashing .I think its pretty cool that you run 11's with an all motor small block Nostaglia street car .Once again ,not many people can say that ...

 

Thanks Shocker! I agree with the mph, but the thing is I am just barely getting into 4th in the lights. Also I'm just now starting to REALLY tach it up at the line. I'm still playing with my jetting and may can go a bit richer. I'm usually wrong on these things, but I think I can get real close...like 11.15 without anything too radical. That last pass was going to be a good one! lol
p.s. you can speak freely with me man because I respect your opinion and I want you to shoot me straight

 

Congrats.

So you are ~ 2700lb raceweight, running 11.7-9@115 on a 1.61.

1) I'd try some runs shifting higher. Not sure what rockers and springs you have my my late model OT stuff I shifted at 7100, and my other car saw 7300. But I'd try shifting up to 7000 just to find out if you'd pick up or if it would start to nose over. Shift points are based on HP you make at a given rpm, peak HP rpm, but also how much your rpms drop between shifts/gear changes, and the power you make at that rpm.

2) I think you could run low 11's with more mph as stated. I had a friend who ran at 2700 raceweight and he went 10.9@118 or 119mph. I can be done. I went 10.92@123 but I was 3300 raceweight.

3) I'd consider a gear swap if you are barely in 4th.

 

John, you did what you set out to do and I'm glad I was there with ya, can't wait to do it again, that is if you'll have me,,, after fucking up your trailer

I had the time of my life.

PS, I'll have the vid's up tomorrow, they turn out awesome.

 

I think your on the right track with the gear thing and jetting.If your barely getting into 4th in the lights i would go with a slightly higher gear in the rearend and try to stay out of 4th completely .It would save you a shift (and lower your ET plus make it freindlier on the highway as a street car).I have ran 11.48 with a 1.63 60' so i think your okay off the line with the low gear you have in the TKO and getting a 1.61 60'.A far as the jetting goes the plugs will tell you what it needs .Another better way (if you dont mind changing jetts at the track) is to keep stepping them up 2#'s at a time until the mph drops slightly then back up one # and your there.This has to be done all in the same day though in the same air and weather conditions to do it right .Good luck on your quest and cant wait to see it run in a few weeks at Ardmore.You will proly set your best at the DOTD in October in the good conditions and will proly be dead on my Mopar Ass by then .I am hoping to get better than my 11.48 from last year ,but you never know ...

 

Grits, I can't wait to see em!!! John, I'm thinking the same I already plan on changing to a posi unit and 4.11s and play with the tune a bit and see how deep i can go into the 11's but yes definetely aiming for 10's at some point! I would try a gear change in your car and shift a lil higher cause that thing was pulling like a freight train til 4th! I'm still giddy as a school girl after our last pass!!!! But looks like I gotta keep up, after all we gotta break that tie!

 

I agree with most everything your saying. I did shift at higher points, but it ran slower. Quits pulling as hard around 6500. I do have a hydraulic roller for now, but that will change in the future. I think the gear swap will be dramatic, but time will tell. Interesting to find out.

 

It was a riot man! Most fun I have had in years! Can't wait to see the videos. I think I was invisible or something because for somebody who made like 6 passes there sure isn't many pictures of my car! LOL Wonder where everybody elses videos are?

 

I don't mind jetting at the track, but would you just step up the secondarys or both?

 

i saw it, it was awesome...

 

Man you telling me you don't have a posi in that thing?!? Good grief! Then I really need to step it up for next year! I'm still giddy too! That last one was ALMOST perfect. LOL I'm enjoying the friendly rivalry. Makes it fun.

 

HAHAHA Cool man! Thanks.

 

Hey John, an easy start would be a diet. 2700 is way heavy for that T unless your ass is about 600#.

 

LOL! Mine has a 1/4" plate boxed frame which is where I get the extra weight from. It was boxed that way before I bought it. Looks like I just need to make more horsepower. Easy right?!

 

I was gonna say 2700 ain't too heavy I'm 2520 with me in the car but no cage or nothing! And yep just an open rear end, never thought one wheel Peel would go 11's either!

 

I'd go all around to save time and bowl gaskets.What did your plugs look like after Mokan? I remember you saying on an earlier thread that they looked white (or lean) after sum test runs prior to Mokan.Was it trying to bang or pop out the exhausts at high rpm at Mokan on the 115 mph pass ? Did the plugs look lean all around the board or worse in the rear or front of the motor before when they were lean? What size carbs are you running now and what size Jetts front and rear ? I like to stay about 6 or 8 sizes bigger on the secondaries regardless of the cfm on a drag motor ...

 

It would help to know your rpm through the lights. I'm suspecting that your average gen1 383 is gonna float a hyd roller when much above 6300rpm or so-depending on your valvetrain weight.

General rule of thumb (for us) is to raise launch rpm until the tires cant quite cope- then keep that launch rpm and try to bring the hook back with air pressure changes- lots to be gained there with testing.

roughly speculating my gazintas (3 gazinta 12 four times, ya know) the Majik 8ball says 320 ish horsepower shifting 6500 on a 28 inch tire may need a 4.88 gear to get all of 4th into the show. Majik 8 ball says you'd be getting on to 6500rpm through the lights.

Do you have any better info about the hp of the mill? what's the cam and compression?

Does this have a hefty flywheel or standard weight?
What's your rear suspension? Any traction aids, like bars, Caltracs, pinion snubber, ladder bars?

as far as jetting up/down- you should take a notebook with you to the track- record everything you're budget will allow- not too much cash to get a barometer and a laser infrared gun.

Get tire temps, track temps, air temps, humidity, pressure.
Engine temp, and all the incrementals from your timeslip

generally a jet changes requires a two size jump to make a noticeable change. tune for mph -even if you have wideband readings, the car wants what the car wants.

Learn to read plugs- not as easy running cat pee (unleaded) but still very informative- if you cut the threads off the plug, you can examine the band at the base of the ceramic. Different color stripes at different heights will reveal idle vs WOT tuning.

so.... 4.88s, suspension, lots of tuning, more power, add lightness, and practice, lol.


hope this helps

-rick


oh yeah. get some scare stickers- guaranteed to drop .05 second per sticker, but if you wanna go bigtime, a stripe is worth a full tenth.

 

Would you believe I haven't got to look at them yet?! I haven't had time to fart since I got back. I jump on this computer for about 15 minutes before going to work...come home and don't want to do anything but sit down. lol It wasn't banging out though. I'm running 2x750's with 75's all around. I was fouling plugs BIG time until I started running Autolite AR25 plugs. LOVE those plugs! They were a life saver for me. I was AR135 which are in the same heat range and they sucked. The AR25 have a resistor and longer insulator to prevent fouling. They work, but are about $6 a pop!

 

LOL! Ok let's see if I can dig out my cam card...(shuffle shuffle) AHHHH YES! Here is my cam grind# cs 314h-r10 It has .600 lift on intake and exhaust with 252 duration onintake and exhaust at .050. It also has 110 lobe separation. My engine has 10.1 compression. I have an SFI flywheel. I believe it's standard weight. I have adjustable coilovers all around and ladder bars. 54% of my weight is on the rear tires. It's launching HARD!

I find it interesting that you said 4.88 gears because that is exactly what Herb (60gasser) and I said on the phone last night. I work this weekend, but Herb is going to try and switch my gears out for me so I can really dig at Reunion. Pays to have good friends! Thanks also for all the good advice Rick! You have helped me out tremendously!

p.s. I hate to be less than bright, but is a scare sticker when you shart your pants?

 

Oh Hell.You said i could speak freely here so im gunna.I realise that 2 fours on a T-ram looks killer on a Hotrod ,but do you want to go fast or look cool ? IMO i dont think you have the motor or rpm need for the T-ram and you certainly dont need 1500 cfm worth of carb on a 10 to 1 383.For what your rpm limits are with the hydraulic roller (around 6300 to 6500 proly depending)you would be much better with an Airgap or Victor J and say a 750-850 carb .Once again this is just my opinion .For comparrison im running 11.40-11.50 with a 750 Demon in a car thats 200 lbs heavier with a 1.76 low gear and im shifting it at 5800 (cuz thats what it likes with the cam).Blt4spdsince79 (Ray) on here is running 11.80-11.90 in his 53 mordor street car with an 11 to 1 383 ,a Proform 750 carb,Victor J,and 3.73 gears ,and his 53 weighs about 3600 lbs .He is spinning it to about 7000 if i remember right and the 750 is feeding it.Once again this is just my opinion but i know of lots of guys running low 6's in the 1/8 with an 850-950 carb .The key to getting the most of your combo is to figure out what rpm it makes the most balls at and work around that with the carb size ,gears ,intake ,shift points ,etc.My car has a race Victor intake on it and i hate it.I wish i could get a dual plane for it as i know it would go faster ,but unfortunately i dont have many choices with the W2 heads and their weirdo port design.I like smaller carbs on Race motors but thats just me .BTW i also run Autolite AR plugs in my Dart and love them ...

 

I agree with you that it's overkill on the cfm's, and I do want it to look purdy so I give up a little performance wise I guess. I'm going to campain it for about a year like it is then I'm going to liven things up a bit. Hard to get too wild since it's street driven and I'm not keen on NOS. Probably go solid roller and do some head work. Keep shooting me str8 man. Cya at reunoin.

 

I had to look back, you are running a 4.11 now.

I think 4.88's are a big jump, I'd go to 4.56 gears personally. Plus the better your 60ft gets the quicker you will run thru the gears. I think off the top of my head if you can get a 1.45 and 119mph you should run 10's. I think a gear swap will net you 2 mph but you'll have to fiddle with your combo (add fuel, play with timing) to find some more power. How big is your carburetor.

 

2x750's

 

Just wanted to jump in real quick to say "great thread". Lots of valuable info. helping John make good decisions on going quicker in his street car. I love it!

 

well hawt diggity, got yerself a suspension that you can play with! 54% on the rear will help too!

are you getting any bog when you dump the clutch? I'd keep upping the rpm till you loose bite, then play with air pressure, but do some burnies on a clean surface to make sure you're laying even rubber acrros the tread- if it gets light in the middle you dont wanna drop too much more air out- unless the wadding off the line compensates and your 60' is still picking up.

You should be able to really dial in that rear, and once that happens you can log the settings in notebook and return to cruising settings at will.

I'm telling you, scare stickers are worth abunch- i know a guy that was only cutting 13.20's in his honduh. three or four hundred VTEC, Greddy, TIAL, and Lakewood stickers later, he's now at 13.00's in the quartermile (he says he gets more top end at bonneville due to the sticker's frayed edges breaking up that boundry air- something about laminar flow. All i know is that he looks mad-tyte,yo!)

on a more realistic note- i've heard that multi carbs back in the day wasn't so much for cfm (way overboard) but to get sufficient needle/seat area to fuel the mill. Dunno if it's true, but i'll keep spreading it.

If you're thinking of a cam change-consider some titanium retainers- i hear they're aren't that much more than steel nowadays. lightwieght solid roller pushrods, oval wire springs, light valves, lol... gets ridiculous dont it.

Maybe go with less overlap but put a blower on it- might actually be cheaper in the long run lol....

this car looks like a real fun time! we need video!!!!

-rick

 

Grits is gonna post one of me and John today! I'm patiently, impatiently waiting lol!!

 

Videos!?...you are in for a treat then. I had an in car camera but was trying to be cute and had it mounted near my left cheek so you mostly see just the stands wizzing by. Grits SUPPOSEDLY will be posting some killer video today sometime of me and some other guys. KAMP also posted a couple of videos of our races on youtube that you will enjoy if you can find them. I better get back to work! LOL

 

Your right man I'm getting a ton of good stuff here! To be honest I feel a bit exposed telling EVERYTHING about my car, but I feel since I"m getting all this great help then others should be able to learn from my success/failures. What this board is supposed to be about right? Great meeting you at Mo-Kan. Been following you and D.W. for years.

 

Cool ,i dig drag car vids as you may have noticed with the vids of my Dodge im always craming down everyones throat.Lets see'em !!!

 

I also have a small snippet Grits took before Mo-kan. I'll wait because he may post it up before me (plus I'm at work). It's funny because it is so shakey LOL. Grits!! Hey Grits! Post'em up brother!
I have started calling Grits "The Eggman" because he likes to eat 6 eggs for breakfast every morning! Guy thinks he's Cool Hand Luke. So all weekend long it was the adventures of The Eggman and The Walrus (yeah I'm the walrus) We had a hell of a lot of fun.