Okay, if you look at the oil galley in my block, you can see the front area of the valve train area where the oil dumps back to the crankcase via a large hole. If you notice, the bottom of the hole is lower than the lifters themselves. The lifters I am using are solid adjustables. How does the oil get to the lifters above the hole? Is the pressure that great that it overflows the valve train area up to the dump tube, not "Noticing" the front dump hole?? My worry is that the hole in the front of the block will not allow that amount of oil to raise up... Im stuck on liquids take the path of least resistance. Thanks for any clarification. Any ideas of setting up an oil pressure guage as well on a Model A motor (Banger)
The lifters get oiled under pressure along with the cam bearings & mains. The rods are a dip system. You will only need a 5# oil pressure gauge for a stock engine. They carry around a 1# when hot. I'm not sure where you tap the block for the gauge. Butch
Does the cam bearings, lifters and mains get oil via an oil galley in the block? From what I can see, I see holes at the bottom of the valve train area that lead to each of the bearing places only; like a "drip" system. Of course, I did not notice any holes in the journals for the lifters.... How do the valve guides get oil as well? They are up there...no galleys to be seen either. Thanks again.
Go to www.fordbarn.com and then to the Model A forum and the experts there know all the answers, plus a lot of stuff you don't even wanna know.
The lifters DO NOT have any oil feed let alone a pressurised one! Nor is the cam or mains pressurised on an 'A' engine. A gauge is a waste of time because there is no pressure to measure. Lifters and valves are oiled by whats splashing around inside the engine. In the case of the valves you don't want a alot of oil because all it would do is travel up the stems and puddle in the ports. The hole in the valve gallery is to drain it of oil, Otherwise it would fill up with oil and have nowhere to go.
I don't think that the oil ever gets so high to exit through the hole at the front of the case Chopped50. The majority of the oil returns to the pan via the external oil return pipe before the level in the galley gets that high. And you're right, the lifters do need more oiling though they do get a little from underneath that is whipped around inthe crankcase. I've just tackled this on mine. With everything stripped out, I drilled a 1/16" hole at the bottom of each lifter boss - approx 1/8" up - at a slight downward angle, so that it doesn't take much oil to be in the galley to lubricate the lifters. Dead easy but it does require everything to be out to do it cleanly. Make sure all swarf is out of the boss before refitting the lifter too! Don't know of a way of fitting a pressure gauge to a banger that isn't running full pressure though, unfortunately. Unless there's a way of utilising the small NPT bung in the block next to the oil pump? Brent would know. Hold on..... ....just had a quick look on Snyder's website and they list a pressure gauge for Model A's. Part number A-6602. Don't know anything about it but it might be worth giving them a call.
Just like you say, the tappets/lifters are moving in and out of the block over 1/4 inch which will allow oil to be forced up the stem of the tappet. I don't think any harm can come by drilling the lifter bosses. Also, just a note of thought..., a banger engine that is driving is subjected to various bumps and etc. while driving that also slosh oil around which will spill onto the tappet stems. It does not take much oil to keep everything happy. A stock Model A oil pump moves tremendous amounts of oil, --and can peg a 100lb pressure gauge if the system is capped. You can get a reading by inserting a fitting in the oil pump hole in the side of the block. Generally if the Oil Pump Distributor Drive Gear Shaft & Bearing clearance is good, --along with decent oil pump housing bushings, a stock Model A engine will carry about 3lbs of pressure when warm.
Thanks Brent for the info. Derek and I smashed our brains together last night trying to figure out how it worked. We figured it out, and this added info has made it complete Question solved. Thanks!!!
A old time ford guy here in Illinois had a cuttout (display motor) that he used in his buisness. The guys name was Don Lason and he designed an oil filter set up for the bangers. i cant remember what it was called (afordable filters or something) anyway he had an electric motor attached to the crank and it showed how the oil flowed in a stock model A. The pumps move a **** load of fluid but no real pressure, and yes the oil never got high enough to cover the lifters tom
You will often hear of someone complaining that their recently rebuilt banger engine has a stuck valve and they complain that this happened because the valve didn't get enough oil. What really happened was that the valve was put in with not enough clearance. These early engines are really hot on the inside (and the old cast iron really retains the heat) and if not enough clearance is allowed the valves will swell and stick. Also, it is not uncommon for a Model A (or T)to run well when it is cold and start running rougher when it gets warm, this is caused by not enough valve lash so the valve grows as it gets warmer no longer is sealing at the seat. A good rule of thumb on any of these early engines is that loose is better than tight-because loose stays loose but tight gets much tighter!
No need to drillem..do it if it makes you feel warm inside. Look into any solid-lifter V8...flathead. Stude, early 318 Plymouth, etc. Valley is riddled with drain holes, no buildup around lifters...Other V8's usually equipt w/aulics have pressure there even if using solids...SBC...no difference in durability. In a running engine, liquid oil is thrown all over from reciprocating parts, fog of oil is verywhere...plus, the floor of the chamber in an A has a continual river varying with speed flowing all over there as pump dumps the oil upstairs. Plop an A pump into a bucket of solvent and turn it CCW qith your fingers--you will be startled at its capacity even at near zero speed. SAME gears ran the much bigger, 40-lb pressure system in the '32-34 V8's! There is no way for an A pump to build significant pressure, since it is dumping its oil into a large area...pressure requires essentially building a new delivery system of tubing to get oil from pump to bearings, but stock pump can make substantial pressure when used in such a closed system, limited essentially by bearing clearance. Lifters have been going up and down in those holes for 75 odd years--they would be worn into dust if things weren't adequate!
Are there any articles tackling the various way to (for the lack of a better use of terminolgy) "pressurize" and "A" block rather than a "B"? I know its always the favorite to go with the B for various reasons,..ease of the work is one, etc. etc. Was just wondering,....I know I've seen a fair amount of banger "A"s having really been built,...outfitted with Riley heads, etc.... Thanks in advance!
I have an "A" engine that has been run up to 4000 RPM's many times and I don't have any pressure to the cam or lifters. I just trust Henry's design and enjoy it. But I have had 2 cranks break at # 4 throw so just run your "A" like you feel but I wouldn't try any thing above 3000 RPM's or so with the poured rods. I know that people run them up to 5 grand on babbit but they have a lot of sophisticated improvements. I am installing a harmonic balancer cause they say it will stop the crank breakage Who's they?
A recent issue of Secrets covers A pressurization as well as the MUCH easier B pretty well, and also one of the resto workshop books from Madel A club covers similar method.
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