Looking for some information on Ford A & B Motors. 1 -- Will a 1939 Ford top loader trans bolt direct to the A or B block? 2 -- Is an adapter needed for this setup? Who makes one? I will be boring block .125 over and adding after market pistons, strip cam, 2x2 intake, mallory ign headers. Looking to make 100 - 150 HP, What after market flat head & CR would be good for this setup? Not looking to run a OHV setup. Thanks in advance, my first Ford A motor build
I believe putting later (39) gears into a 32 case is the most straight forward setup to get what you want.
You need the B trans and bellhousing to put '39 gears into B case. Better off using A bellhousing and the '39 adaptor from Clings. Getting 100 HP out of a flathead Banger is a lot of work. Think 75-80, at a reasonable budget.
You might tell us what car you are going to put this into. If it is going into an A using the kit for a '39 trans might be easiest. If it is going into a '32 the B trans would be the best way to go. Main difference is that the pedals and wishbone mount to the A bell housing and while the B pedals and wishbone mount to the frame of the '32 vehicle. Charlie Stephens
Thanks for all the information. This is my first time messing with an A or B motor. I am a young 70 years old and have been racing front motor BBC dragsters for over 45 years. Built my own power plants as I never had the cash to have it done. This banger / trans setup is going in a one off late 40's style dragster. I hope to run it on the sands of Pismo Beach, CA with "THE RACE OF GENTLEMEN" Trog group nex year. Charlie Stephens & johnneilson --- Really just looking for the easy way out at my lowest cost for a pre - 53 trans to mate to an A motor. Trans will not be shifted more an 20 time a year. The dragster has room for a home built pedal setup. If I can put togeather an A trans that will work and bolts direct to the A block that would be great. I am shooting 75 - 100 HP. Leaving the starting line on the sand with street tires will put very little pressure on the trans. I am going to run an open Ford 8" rear end so I will need to change the trans output to an open system if I can. If making an A trans into an open output is not in the cards can you Tell me what pre 53 closed rear end would work with the A trans. Thanks again. This is a day to day learning project an I can use all the help I can get.
I assume the "pre - 53" is a requirement (if not, say something). Are you going to need to shift or are you just looking for an in and out box? I am not sure you will find the A trans strong enough plus if you need to shift it is non synchro. My guess would be that you will probably be best off with a Model B trans with '39 gears and an open drive conversion from a forties light truck. If the '53 is not a firm requirement go with the late pickup 4 or 5 speed. Have you ever heard of a racing event called the "Antique Nationals", you might want to wander around the pits with a pencil, notepad and camera? Charlie Stephens
There is a Monthly thread here on the HAMB specifically for Bangers. The first page has reference links to previous discussions about all aspects regarding the 4 cyl. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...d-by-substitutes.1014321/page-3#post-11474666 J
Ya "PRE 53" means what it says, ya it's a requirement. I think you can use a pre 53 truck 8" rear, but like you I am not sure, will check. I ran a roadster altered at the Antique National years ago when it was held in Palmdale at LAC Raceway. I will be at this years meet in Fontana.
You will happier with the '39 trans than you would with an A transmission and if you go with the '39 transmission than Zephyr gears are a shoe in. That is just an old hot rod trick to get better ratios. Rather than fool with an 8" truck rear I would look at a banjo from a 3/4 jail bar truck. They are stout enough to run behind a hemi so it will hold the banger no problem and will give you a low enough gear to run in the sand. It is no real problem to adapt the 5 lug hums to them either.
There are a couple of people working on new Model A blocks. I would assume (that always gets people in trouble) if it is an exact copy you could run one but if it is modified for a 5 bearing crank it would be out? How much shifting are you going to do? Maybe an early fifties Ford transmission would be a good choice but I have never heard of one being used. This lack of use might be just because of the late transmissions with overdrives being such a good choice (except where excluded by racing rules). Charlie Stephens
porknbeaner -- I would like to run a 39 trans with Zephyr gears. Is there a supplier for new gears? Best adapter for a 39 trans to an A motor? Can a late 40's banjo work as they are easier to find out on left coast. Are low rear gears on the web for sale. Charlie Stephens -- I will use 1-2-3 shift in an 1/8 mile run or maybe only 2-3 if I can get some low gears for rear end. As I understand you can build & hot rod the motor as long as the running gear (motor/trans/rear end) are pre 1953. I am checking on this to make sure I am correct. running (motor, tra
Nuthin to edit. yes you can get new Zephyr gears I would have to look around, I have not done the swap since the '90s. NOS gears can be found and I have even come across used gears in the last 20 or so years. The only reason I mentioned the truck rear is for a stout alternative to the open drive Ford truck rear that came later. if I were building a car to run TROG or other sand races I would just prefer the torque tube and banjo. The '40s rear will hold up fine behind the banger, although around here the '40 rear would be more in demand than the truck rear so the truck rear would be cheaper and already have deep, deep gears. If you decide to go with a used adapter offy among others made a good adapter. In the old original adapters ( as in used) there really wasn't one better then another, you just try and find one that is in good shape.
porknbeaner -- Thanks for all the gear, adapter & rear end information. The more I looked at your comments on the rear end for a true TROG setup I think the banjo is the way to go. I will start looking for a good rebuildaable 39 trans and make the Zephyr gear change. I think my chances of finding a used A to 39 adapter are slim, so I will more than likely buy a new one. Got any idea on a good rear gear ratio?
4.56 or deeper. You are going to be wanting a truck gear, remember you are driving around 75 ponies in the sand, you need a gear that will allow you to displace a lot of sand.
I am not sure of the years or the interchangeability but I remember that some of the 60 hp cars in the late 40's used a 4.44 rear end. Be sure to put a wanted ad in the local (meaning within 100 miles) V8 clubs newsletters as rear ends are expensive to ship. Start early, it may take a while to find what you need. Charlie Stephens
Does the 39 top loader have 2-3 synchro gears in stock form? Would there be a better trans setup for what I am doing that is a pre 1953 to mate to a Model A motor?
Yes the '39 trans has 2-3 synchro. It has (like all 3 speed transmissions '32-'48) synchro 1-2, 2-3, 3-2. None had synchro 2-1. You might post the question on fordbarn asking if anyone has made an adapter for the '49-'53 trans which might be better. I haven't heard of one but it can't hurt to ask. Most people don't have the pre '53 requirement and go to later transmissions. Are you sure this requirement applies to the transmission? Charlie Stephens
ya Charlie -- All running gear, Motor/Trans/Rear End/Front End & Frame. All Bodies must be 34 or older unless special built like belly tanks ect . You can get an adapter from Clings to mate the A block to a 39 trans, but at $500 it's a little high for this built. Trying to do this like in the late 50's. Need to use the Want section here & on HAMB.
quoted from TROG website; Year: Car body must be 1934 or older, American made only Engine: 1948 or older, American made (1949-1953 Ford flatheads are acceptable) No stock 1949 Overhead Valves are excepted. I don't see anything here about BellyTanks or special builds. They MAY be period correct, but nothing written to allow for in the rules. Unless I am mistaken, the BellyTanks would have started to show up after WWII and the time period intended for the event too late. J
Bert's Model A in Denver (800/321-1931) is a good source for Zephyr gears. I'm unaware of anything lower that 4:11 for an A banjo rear end. Perhaps AA??
i have collected parts to build about what you are thinking. i have a B eng w/b trans, have a 40 box to take gears out of to put in 32 box. the 37-40 v8 -60 rear has 4.44 gears, is abit low unless you have zypher gears and tall tires.
Barn Find -- I will be balancing the complete rotating unit & pressure oiling the center main cap. Charlie Stephens -- I might if I had a B trans box & a set of 39 gears. I have a 39 trans complete. johnneilson -- I think they let them run exabishion and not race the class cars. denis4x4 -- Thanks for the number on the gears. I hope to run a 1940 banjo with 4.11 gears.
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