Working on my coupe to try to get it running. The PO had wired in a ford starter solenoid to work off of a regular key instead of the foot rod. It worked when I got the car. Pulled it all out to clean and paint etc. I have wired it back up exactly how they had it but nada. I can but the wire straight from the battery and it turns over. Starter is good. Tried a new solenoid. Nada. Help meh! Wiring is Batt to solenoid Hot from solenoid to key Yellow from key start to the pole on the solenoid. Shown in pic. Tried both. Nuthin. Other side of solenoid to post on the starter. Pretty much like it shows all over the interwebs. Thanks
It's not bolted to the car. Does it ground when it's bolted down. I'm just trying to crank it to get it running. But want the key to be able to kill it
Some solenoids ground by the case , some by the switch. On the case gd one the little wire is switched hot. On the switch gd the little wire is switched gd.
Try putting the small wire on the other small post. One post is the solenoid activation from the key, the other is the ignition resistor bypass to aid cold starting (12 volt). That one would normally go to the hot side of the coil. It only bypasses the resistor while cranking. Check all grounds to make sure they are clean and tight. If that don't cure it, check the switch and/or turn the starter shaft a bit by hand (need to remove starter) to make sure it didn't stop on a dead spot. Edit ......... I notice you are running the starter cable through an original Model A starter switch. Check to make sure that switch is making contact. Very likely a source of trouble.
Thanks guys. I tried the other post and nothing. I think the solenoid needs to be mounted and grounded. It's just laying loose because I want to hire it and make sure it works before i go to cutting up my cloth wires. If the starter turns over by putting the battery direct to the post does that tell me the model A switch is making contact? It's cranks fine when I do that.
Don't quite follow you . You show a pic with a solenoid bolted to firewall with one wire missing off small post. This post has to be grounded to make solenoid click . This will only put power thru to other side of solenoid, THEN, it goes down to the original model A starter that has its own mechanical solenoid built in, so it will not work until you push the floor starter. Is the original foot mounted solenoid still on top of starter ? Now you say it is all hanging loose ? Post a pic of how you are trying it loose..... Either way that other small post besides the yellow wire has to be grounded to activate that after market solenoid. It does not put full power thru that post for cranking/starting purposes, that system is built into modern starter motors with pull in and hold in solenoid systems.
I see what you mean. For some reason starter systems baffle me sometimes. The foot rod is gone. But if I take the main battery cable straight from the battery to the post on the starter it will crank the motor just fine. I'm thinking somone made the connection permanent somehow in the foot operated solenoid. So all I need is for the solenoid to kick in and send power down to the starter when I turn the key switch. The switch and the solenoid are not mounted so they are not grounded and like all of you have said I believe this is the problem. I will get the solenoid and switch mounted temporarily and ground the other post as pooch said and give it a shot. Thanks guys
Maybe I all wrong but does the fact that stock Model A's were POSITIVE ground have any affect on the circuit? Also I remember the rod pushing down on a metal strip that contacted the starter motor internal connector so unless that cover/bolt/Red wire with the yellow terminal end is making the complete circuit I don't think it will spin.
Run a jumper wire from the battery to the small post on the solenoid and see if it kicks in. If so, the problem is in the switch or it's wiring. If not, you have a bad solenoid. I checked one of my installations this morning and you had the solenoid hooked up correctly. Check to see if you get juice to the small wire on the solenoid when you turn the switch to the start position. If so, the switch is okay. If not, the switch is the culprit or something is amiss in the switch or it's wiring. The switch doesn't need to be grounded. The solenoid? I don't remember.
Some solenoids NEED a ground wire, some ground through the mounting bracket. Let's figgure that the one you have is the standard FORD type. The standard Ford type is grounded through the mounting bracket, The battery cable should go on the left side if you are looking at it from the front The next terminal to the right (small one) is the "trip terminal, this should go to the key switch. The next terminal to the right (small one) is the "ignition bypass" this would bypass the balast resistor going to the points if you had that. This provides full battery voltage to the points under cranking. Now the last terminal (large one) would go to the starter. SO what I see is that you need to move the battery cable to the other large terminal, It looks like the "trip wire" from the key switch is correct. The next terminal would not be used. and the last would be the large cable to the starter. Then it should work. If not MAKE SURE the solenoid is grounded (the bracket) AND the stock model A switch is stuck in the "on" position. Make sure the firewall is grounded to frame/engine block. All this assumes you have a stock ford type solenoid, Like I said, some are wired inside different and used for different things. The system will work with the two large wires connected the other way but most are connected the way I said. One other thing? are you cranking with 12 volts? or 6? If you are using 6V your cables are a little small but it should still crank.
Remember the solenoid is just a relay...a switch that operates from another switch. What happens is when you provide power to the trip wire terminal, current flows through a coil inside and to ground. ( this is why the bracket needs a ground) This makes a electro magnet that pulls down a plunger to connect the two larger terminals. This way you don't have to run big battery cables up to the dash and mount a big starter switch. Its all about current flow... you need the big cables to handle the current but you don't want the big starter switch on the dash.
Keep in mind that the solenoid is basically an electrically operated big push button (momentary contact). Just thiunk of a big push button switch that when you push on the button it connects 2 terminals together, completing the circuit. When you let go the connection to the 2 terminals is released and the circuit is opened. OK, the solenoid does that electrically using electro-magnetism. Inside the solenoid is a small coil of copper wire going around a ferrous core. When you energize it (apply voltage to the small terminal) the core becomes magnetic and the magnetic attraction pulls a rod up. On the end of the rod is a copper washer that makes contact between the two large terminals. One of those terminals goes to the battery, the other goes to the starter. Put a heavy gauge jumper cable across those two terminals and the starter should turn (but watch out for sparks!!!). For the internal coil to work it has to have voltage supplied to it and it has to have a connection to ground. OK, so to diagnose it, start with the simple and work toward the complicated, and remember the basics, the same as with any diagnosis process. First check for voltage at the terminal where the batter cable connects. Got voltage there? If not, find out why. If you do, good. Now check to see that you've getting voltage to the small terminal with the wire from the key switch when you turn the key. If you don't now you need to find out why not. Either the switch is bad or there is an open circuit somewhere between the solenoid and the switch. If you do have voltage, good. Now see if you have voltage to the large terminal going to the starter when you turn the switch. If you do, then the solenoid is operating correctly and you've got a poor connection at the starter or a problem with the starter. You said it worked when you jumped the cables directly to it, so I don't think that the starter is the problem. If you don't have voltage at that large terminal when you turn the key, but you are getting voltage to the small terminal, then either you have a poor or non-existent ground connection, or the solenoid itself is failed. You said the solenoid wasn't mounted, that means it's not making connection to the chassis and the coil circuit is opened. But in your picture it looks mounted to me, in which case, make sure you're getting good contact between the solenoid and the body. Clean the metal where it mounts with some sand paper or emery cloth. Follow the above and you should find the problem.
Got one of these? http://www.autozone.com/test-scan-a...ight-circuit-tester/186543_0_0/?checkfit=true That and a few of these http://www.amazon.com/Elenco-TL-6-A...=1450463119&sr=8-5&keywords=jumper+test+leads Is all you need to diagnose this. Though a multi-meter is also something you should have on hand. http://www.amazon.com/b?node=15707471
The switch on the starter has been made to a terminal. Some reason the soleniod is not tripping. Cables looks small but it should at least try to do something. You can make up a jumper wire and put a fuse in it just in case you test the wrong wire!
The "classic' Ford solenoid has four terminals. Two large, and two small. Ground is provided by the case When viewed from the front with the terminals at the bottom the connections are traditionally as follows: Left large terminal: battery. Left small terminal: ignition switch trigger wire. Right small terminal: ballast resistor bypass wire (not used in all applications). Right large terminal: starter motor. In the picture posted above, the solenoid is wired incorrectly. Switch the connections of all wires between the large terminals, and try that. This is assuming that the pink small wire provides current from the battery to the starter switch, and that they small yellow wire completes the circuit from the starter switch, to the solenoid, when the switch is engaged. Whether positive or negative ground, so long as the solenoid is grounded properly, and the non-ground battery terminal is connected to the left large terminal, bridging the left large terminal to the left small terminal (with a push button, key switch, jumper wire, or a screwdriver) will energize the solenoid, sending current to the right two terminals. Yes, it can be wired in an alternate pattern, but this is a traditional board.
Awesome thanks guys. Yes I have a multi meter. Power goes up to the key switch and when turned comes back down to the yellow wire. So the key is good. I did jump across the two big poles and it cranks. I think from looking above its not grounded. I'll mount it with good ground and try that. I think that's the problem. Simple but I have learned a lot about starter solenoids. Thanks guys. I'm a Chevy convert. This ford stuff will take some education on my part.
OK, the consensus here is a standard ford relay uses the solenoid body for grounding. So try that first. If this works, disregard my info on grounding the right side small post, as this is not then correct. The aftermarket solenoids I have worked with need + and - at those small posts to work. just being a simple electro magnet . If that right small post is indeed a full power lead to the coil at cranking , do not ground it as it will then be a dead short. If..... grounding the case does not make it work, you can TRY a ground on that right small post but ONLY with a fuse inline, so it will blow if not correct.
"When viewed from the front with the terminals at the bottom the connections are traditionally as follows: Left large terminal: battery. Left small terminal: ignition switch trigger wire. Right small terminal: ballast resistor bypass wire (not used in all applications). Right large terminal: starter motor. In the picture posted above, the solenoid is wired incorrectly." This is correct, and brings up an important point for those that are using that small terminal (the "I" terminal) that the OP here is not using, to bypass the ballast resistor. Otherwise the way he has the 2 large terminals connected would cause the ballast resistor bypass to be continuously On, sending full voltage to the ignition coil all the time because there is continuity between that small terminal and the large terminal on the right. And that would result in damage to the coil. So that's an important point and thanks to gimpyshotrods for pointing it out. In this case though, since the OP is not using that terminal, then it really doesn't matter which way he has the cables connected to the large terminals, but it's a good point to remember. It's not the reason the car won't start though.
I just went thru this on my 1950 Crestliner. Ignore all the misdirection about 4wires, A car using a push button to start has a different solenoid than a car using a key to crank. The key supplies voltage to the solenoid. A push button supplies a ground to the solenoid. I got the right solenoid from ebay
Got her running. It just had to be mounted. Found a good temp spot and it started cranking over. Fed it some fuel and it fired right up.
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